Have faith my friends. Have faith. Do not confuse the strategy of a single p & l of that of the company or that of DevDiv.
From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Cooney Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 10:22 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: Future of .NET The mono project and xamarin seem to be doing great things with and for .net. Apart from some bright spots, devdiv have jumped the shark. On 22 Aug 2013 15:16, "Greg Harris" <harris.gre...@gmail.com<mailto:harris.gre...@gmail.com>> wrote: I was told at Uni (1980) that COBOL was going to die real soon... Since then COBOL paid off all of my first mortgage. It was not until about 1994 that COBOL stopped earning for me and I am sure that there are a lot of people out there still paying their way with it. .NET may be on the start of a down turn, but if it is, it has a long way to go, for now I am happy to stay with .NET, but Microsoft scare me, they have to look out for what they think is best for Microsoft and we could get swept up with the good or the bad of that, we have to accept that we have little control of the ride we are on! Would other options be better, I doubt it, just different. Interesting to look at the job trends, look at: http://www.simplyhired.com/a/jobtrends/trend/q-asp.net+programmer%2Cruby+programmer%2Clamp+programmer [Asp.net Programmer, Ruby Programmer, Lamp Programmer trends graph] There is a down trend which is not good, I don't know why the data stops a year ago???? It may have all changed in the last year? On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 2:37 PM, Scott Barnes <scott.bar...@gmail.com<mailto:scott.bar...@gmail.com>> wrote: In 2008 there was a tipping point in the .NET scene overall and the timing was likely due to the post .NET adoption peak or high as to grow further meant you had to go to outlying areas of the market. It also had to do with the amount of investment and evangelism that went on in Academic institutions also dropped significantly (due to scenarios where teachers didn't like ASP.NET<http://ASP.NET> or WinForms due to their blurring of basic OOP principles mixed with costs associated - compared to python, java, php, etc) Microsoft decided to react and it's really been a 3-5 year campaign on driving adoption in the outlying areas - specifically going after pretty much the entire landscape(s) of competitors at once ... i mean if they aren't fighting and campaigning to convince you all that Google is the enemy then its Apple and when not Apple it's back to the LAMP is evil etc. The problem is they've lost perspective by shifting everyone from strategies that start and finish on the fiscal year time lines they in turn have created this area of uncertainty where you have a lot of .NET coders out there writing WinForms, WebForms, Asp MVC, WPF, Silverlight etc all being told they really need to stop doing this and go with HTML5/JS for Windows8/Wp8 or C++ for more intensive scenarios. If you then still reject they then concede XAML/C# is fine but you still need to write code differently because even the name spaces are different (yet you can't figure out why given well..they behave and act the same as their counterparts...) which you then realise that was a forcing function on adopting new over old. By not giving a transition period between 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 to now.. they've basically pushed the crowd of .NET further away from a sustaining model of adoption. It then asks everyone who are loyal to the brands and technology that comes out from Microsoft to consider two things - "Can you trust us to stick this strategy out given our past" and "Have you really considered us against the alternative?" If this were a political party soliciting you for your vote its as if they've told you "vote for us and will probably tax you more can't say for sure" :) So yeah, adoption cycles are going to fluctuate around what happens post Winforms/Wpf of past... I'd wager that gaming industry will influence the outcome given they have a lot more to win/loose around this entire uncertainty (given device/desktop/console buying power is massive). That's where a lot of start-ups occupy today - gaming/kickstarter style space. --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Andrew McGrath <andrew.mcgr...@workslink.com.au<mailto:andrew.mcgr...@workslink.com.au>> wrote: .NET 2.0 coding still has some uses.... Had to stick to it to create a .NET IDE for the web....using Visual Web GUI (essentially .NET WinForms that runs via your browser) and Xamarin. Can now write .NET code once and run it on web, natively on Android, iOS, Mac and PC....useful in some scenarios. AFAIK, still need native on mobile devices to be able to interact with SQLite as I don't think Javascript + PhoneGap gives you that. ________________________________ From: "Nathan Schultz" <milish...@gmail.com<mailto:milish...@gmail.com>> Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 1:17 PM To: "ozDotNet" <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com>> Subject: Re: Future of .NET I don't think Microsoft was ever popular with the Startup community. The last time I did anything in that area LAMP was all the rage. I have one mate in the Start-Up community who has used ASP.NET<http://ASP.NET> MVC on a project, and said it stacks up okay against Rails. But he hated Entity Framework (he said he wasted days trying to get it working properly). He's since moved on to using Google's Go progamming language. Certainly I like the direction Microsoft is going by cherry picking the best out of other technologies (e.g. lamda expressions, dynamic language run-time, and MVC). Compiler as a Service also seems to have interesting possibilities. It's certainly not growing stale like COBOL. It's when I have to help out with Java projects (despite some good libraries), it feels like a time-warp back to .Net 2.0 days. On 22 August 2013 09:47, Greg Harris <harris.gre...@gmail.com<mailto:harris.gre...@gmail.com>> wrote: Microsoft are trying to fix the startup thing with Biz Spark (http://www.microsoft.com/bizspark/) But when they make super stuff ups like the non support of Silverlight you do have ask what the @#$%^&* they are doing !!!!! On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 11:42 AM, Craig van Nieuwkerk <crai...@gmail.com<mailto:crai...@gmail.com>> wrote: I don't think this will necessarily filter into the enterprise in a big. .NET and Java are both really strong in enterprise, as are Oracle and SQL Server but not that strong in startups. Enterprise and startups have different requirements. On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 11:37 AM, Michael Ridland <rid...@gmail.com<mailto:rid...@gmail.com>> wrote: Does this eventually filter into enterprise and if so what does that mean for .NET? On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 11:35 AM, Michael Ridland <rid...@gmail.com<mailto:rid...@gmail.com>> wrote: Python / Django / Rails. I think you would be hard press for find a .NET job on AngelList. Well actually I can see 53 companies out of 3916 that use asp.net<http://asp.net>. https://angel.co/ifttt/jobs I'm not bashing just noting my observations and wanted opinions? On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 11:14 AM, Rob Andrew <rand...@voyageconnect.com<mailto:rand...@voyageconnect.com>> wrote: Michael, What is the development platform of choice for the cool kids you are seeing? Just wondering. Rob ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Ridland [mailto:rid...@gmail.com<mailto:rid...@gmail.com>] To: ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> Sent: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 10:38:49 +1000 Subject: Future of .NET Hi It's clear that in the Start-up and Web communities the choice for development platforms is not .NET. Does this mean eventually this will filter up? I'm wondering what this means for the future of .NET? I once had a developer say .NET is the new COBOL.
