First we have to agree, strategically, what we want (or should have). Then we can argue about implementation details. That said, we will never get anything built if each individual person puts their own caveats on how a country-wide piece of infrastructure is going to be built. We are just going to have to accept some compromises.
As for "not going to be there in my working life" - that is such a poor argument, unless you're planning to be "off the grid" once you retire. Cheers Ken From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of GregAtGregLowDotCom Sent: Thursday, 12 December 2013 3:11 PM To: Ken Schaefer; ozDotNet Subject: RE: NBN Petition Thanks for the update Ken. Haven't read it yet but will do so. I'd love to see FTTP done if it can be rolled out in a commercial way, with commercial timeframes. The previous plan sounded "nice" but didn't look like it'd happen in my working lifetime so it was irrelevant to me anyway... It'd be great if the community just told them to make it happen but in a commercial way. The previous plan seemed highly political. It was being rolled out in areas that were politically interesting, not commercially interesting. Our street has had 30 gig cable for ages, 100 gig available if you can negotiate the Telstra puzzle. If they ran fibre down the street, a significant percentage of people would sign up and make good use of it. But our existing service is what doomed us to never having the new one based on the previous plan. A commercial focus would see us cabled up quickly, as we'd be both cheap to cable, and have a large take-up. If I could pay $5k and have a 1gig connection tomorrow, I'd happily pay for it tomorrow. Previously they seemed to insist on rolling it out into areas that have no existing use for it, and little interest in connecting. That's not been a commercial decision. Regards, Greg Dr Greg Low 1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913 fax SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com<http://www.sqldownunder.com/> From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com] Sent: Thursday, 12 December 2013 2:48 PM To: GregAtGregLowDotCom; ozDotNet Subject: RE: NBN Petition Well, Turnbull's strategic review is out. And whilst we're all likely to get the rubbish mixed-technology mix option (some FTTP, some FTTN and some HFC) due to the "headline" cost of building the network, the NPV savings over FTTP are miniscule once we factor in the need to upgrade to something else later. By going down the cr*p "up to 25mbps" we're now being promised, we save a whole $2bn if we then decide to go to 100mbps, $5bn if we decide to go to 250mbps, and $4bn if we decide to go to 1gbps. The numbers are on p100, right in Turnbull's own review. For such small savings, just build the FTTP now, and avoid crippling vast portions of community for the next 17 years. Cheers Ken From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of GregAtGregLowDotCom Sent: Wednesday, 11 December 2013 7:41 PM To: 'ozDotNet' Subject: RE: NBN Petition They are only at a handful of locations for FTTP. Regards, Greg Dr Greg Low 1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913 fax SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com<http://www.sqldownunder.com/> From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of anthonyatsmall...@mail.com<mailto:anthonyatsmall...@mail.com> Sent: Tuesday, 10 December 2013 9:35 PM To: 'ozDotNet' Subject: RE: NBN Petition Not sure if anyone is aware or already using it..but i do not have NBN but found that a company called opticomm can install fibre and an ISP like internode can give you speeds of 40MBS/20MBS connection... i'm disconnecting my Telstra low performance line for the same cost but fibre speeds. No could tell me this was possible till i found another business had fibre. I'm in Bundoora BTW From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Tony Wright Sent: Saturday, 7 December 2013 6:19 PM To: David Connors; ozDotNet Subject: Re: NBN Petition If anyone is interested, The Age has an article that talks about how they are moving to 1GB on the NBN: http://www.theage.com.au/it-pro/one-gigabit-available-on-nbn-this-month-20131206-hv4pg.html In the article it states that the cost of a CVC connection is $20,000, but that it is likely to be shared between 3000 connections. So the total cost, if the ISP gets full take up, is $6.66 per connection. ($20,000 / 3000 = $6.66) So the full wholesale cost in this scenario would be $150 + $6.66 = $156.66. This makes the $200 for 1GB possible, however it will probably be somewhere between $200 per month and $300 per month. It is also likely that the ISPs will not have to pay CVC until a higher number of connections is achieved during the setup period. So $20,000 or $6.66. You just have to decide which one is more plausible. I guess we'll see when the ISPs start offering 1GBps connections, which could be quite soon. On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 9:36 PM, Tony Wright <tonyw...@gmail.com<mailto:tonyw...@gmail.com>> wrote: Its quite simple really. The whole premise of CVC being delivered to 93% of the population is bogus and deceptive. This is the statement that was suggested. The statement was factually correct but based on a complete lie. Sent from my Windows Phone ________________________________ From: David Connors Sent: 12/11/2013 8:38 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: NBN Petition On 12 November 2013 17:50, Tony Wright <tonyw...@gmail.com<mailto:tonyw...@gmail.com>> wrote: (Mind you, this is what is supposed to be in the NBN plan - The NBNCo Corporate Plan contains these examples on page 67: * The 1Gbps AVC price will fall from $150 to $90 (40% decrease) while the average speed increases from 30Mbps to 230Mbps (760% increase) * CVC pricing starts at $20Mbps/month when average data usage is 30GB/month and falls to $8/Mbps/month when average data usage is 540GB/month. Price falls by 2.5 times, while the average data usage grows by 18 times, which means 720% growth in revenue from CVC when accounting for price falls. ) Are you talking about this: http://www.nbnco.com.au/content/dam/nbnco/documents/nbn-co-corporate-plan-6-aug-2012.pdf ? Page 67 says nothing of the sort. I *think* what they're saying is that they are factoring in the 'no charge until 30001st premise in an area gets installed' as a form of discount, which is pretty rubbery accounting. To put page 67 in laymans terms, the first 150mbps of capacity in the service area (keeping in mind that might be 70,000+ premises) is free. I believe I read in the draft NBN document that they were intending the wholesale price to be $150 per month for a 1Gbps FTTH connection in Australia. So the least deceptive answer is that you could have a 1Gbps connection for $150 per month plus the cost of the ISP service. Nope. $150 of AVC + the ISP Service + CVC. Even if the price of CVC dropped to $8/mbps/month, then that would still be 800% higher than the forecasted cost of getting data from Europe to Australia next year. i.e. 1mbps CIR from overseas to Brisbane = $1, getting it across Brisbane, $8. FAIL. They didn't broadcast the fact because they assumed that everyone would expect the same behaviour that they are getting from just about every single internet connection in the country at the moment, and that is, you are likely to get speeds of 1Gbps from your ISP and then you'll share a pipe to the rest of the net with the other customers of the ISP. I have to admit, you're the first advocate for CVC I've ever met. Once explained to most people they are mortified. No one expects the NBN to deliver ANYTHING like what they are getting today ... otherwise they would not advocate for the $ spend. Given that FTTN is going to suffer the exact same issue, do you think Malcolm Turnbull is going to stand on a podium and declare that there is also going to be capping or shaping within the new FTTN network? Oh, right, I forgot, they're untouchable. Hey? I hang Turnbull out to dry on CVC earlier today on this very thread. He is on the record, as is hackett, now we get to watch what happens. The fact we're even discussing a scenario where I can get data from Japan to Brisbane for 1/20th the cost of getting it across Brisbane - and you're saying this is somehow sane - beggars belief. The glimmer of hope I am hanging on to (as I said earlier) is that the outspoken comments from the current board and from Turnbull re CVC stick (i.e. Hackett has called for it to be scrapped or dropped to $1/mbps/month). If they want to revolutionise comms in the country, then they would have a single access speed of heaps, kill CVC and offer layer 2 intercap services at next to nix. That would be interesting and would truly enable things like a national LAN for a soho business, remote workers in country towns seamlessly on the corporate network, etc. Here is Simon Hackett's preference, by the way. I believe it's pro fibre: http://simonhackett.com/2013/07/17/nbn-fibre-on-a-copper-budget/ I wasn't aware we were talking about fibre. David.
