--- On Tue, 6/28/11, Hans-Christoph Steiner <[email protected]> wrote:
> From: Hans-Christoph Steiner <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [PD-dev] packaging the pddp docs > To: "Jonathan Wilkes" <[email protected]> > Cc: [email protected] > Date: Tuesday, June 28, 2011, 6:58 PM > > On Jun 28, 2011, at 12:51 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 6/28/11, Hans-Christoph Steiner <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > >> From: Hans-Christoph Steiner <[email protected]> > >> Subject: Re: [PD-dev] packaging the pddp docs > >> To: "Jonathan Wilkes" <[email protected]> > >> Cc: [email protected] > >> Date: Tuesday, June 28, 2011, 6:33 PM > >> > >> On Jun 28, 2011, at 11:43 AM, Jonathan Wilkes > wrote: > >> > >>> > >>> > >>> --- On Tue, 6/28/11, Hans-Christoph Steiner > <[email protected]> > >> wrote: > >>> > >>>> From: Hans-Christoph Steiner <[email protected]> > >>>> Subject: Re: [PD-dev] packaging the pddp > docs > >>>> To: "Jonathan Wilkes" <[email protected]> > >>>> Cc: [email protected] > >>>> Date: Tuesday, June 28, 2011, 5:11 PM > >>>> > >>>> On Jun 28, 2011, at 12:55 AM, Jonathan > Wilkes > >> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> --- On Tue, 6/28/11, Hans-Christoph > Steiner > >> <[email protected]> > >>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> From: Hans-Christoph Steiner > <[email protected]> > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [PD-dev] packaging > the pddp > >> docs > >>>>>> To: "Jonathan Wilkes" <[email protected]> > >>>>>> Cc: [email protected] > >>>>>> Date: Tuesday, June 28, 2011, 6:27 > AM > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Jun 27, 2011, at 6:45 PM, > Jonathan > >> Wilkes > >>>> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> --- On Mon, 6/27/11, > Hans-Christoph > >> Steiner > >>>> <[email protected]> > >>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> From: Hans-Christoph > Steiner > >> <[email protected]> > >>>>>>>> Subject: [PD-dev] > packaging the > >> pddp docs > >>>>>>>> To: [email protected] > >>>>>>>> Date: Monday, June 27, > 2011, 9:21 > >> PM > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Now that the core Pd docs > (i.e. > >>>> /usr/lib/pd/doc/*) > >>>>>> are > >>>>>>>> split out into a > >>>>>>>> separate Debian package, I > think > >> it could > >>>> make > >>>>>> sense to > >>>>>>>> package the PDDP > >>>>>>>> docs in a kind of mirror > or > >> replacement > >>>> package. > >>>>>>>> Something like > >>>>>>>> pddp-doc. Jonathan, > in > >> particular, I > >>>> was > >>>>>> thinking > >>>>>>>> that since you have > >>>>>>>> wanted to work on all the > patches > >> there, > >>>> we could > >>>>>> set it up > >>>>>>>> so the > >>>>>>>> pddp-doc package mirrors > the > >> whole > >>>>>> /usr/lib/pd/doc* > >>>>>>>> directory and patch > >>>>>>>> structure, have this in > SVN, git, > >> or > >>>> whatever > >>>>>>>> somewhere. Then > people > >>>>>>>> could choose the pddp-doc > package > >> if they > >>>> so > >>>>>> choose. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> The PDDP docs I did are all > for > >> vanilla > >>>> objects > >>>>>> (exceptions are > >>>>>>> expr family, and the other > "vanilla" > >>>> extras). If > >>>>>> a new user clicks > >>>>>>> "Help" on a vanilla object, it > should > >> show the > >>>> revised > >>>>>> PDDP help > >>>>>>> patch by default. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> So instead of what you > propose, please > >> make > >>>> something > >>>>>> like a > >>>>>>> legacy-vanilla-help package. > >> That way, > >>>> if > >>>>>> someone really prefers > >>>>>>> the old docs, they can still > find > >> them, and we > >>>> won't > >>>>>> waste new users' time > >>>>>>> by forcing them to use > outdated and > >>>> unmaintained docs > >>>>>> (until they figure > >>>>>>> out they're supposed to > download a > >> separate > >>>> package > >>>>>> for the current > >>>>>>> vanilla help patches, which > nobody has > >> to do > >>>> for any > >>>>>> of the external > >>>>>>> packages). > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -Jonathan > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I agree that the PDDP docs are > much > >> better, that's > >>>> why I > >>>>>> want to get them out there more. > >> Part of > >>>> packaging is > >>>>>> representing the upstream as it is > and > >> letting the > >>>> user > >>>>>> decide. So I think it makes > sense to > >> keep > >>>> puredata-doc > >>>>>> as what's included in the > official > >> tarball. > >>>> As for > >>>>>> Pd-extended, I think it should > still use > >> the PDDP > >>>> docs, so > >>>>>> like you say, showing the PDDP > docs by > >> default. > >>>>> > >>>>> Ok. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> So we just need a plan of attack. If > you can > >> lead up > >>>> this project, I > >>>> will help as much as I can. Do you > want to > >> include > >>>> the whole docs > >>>> tree in the doc/pddp SVN? > > > > I'm already kind of doing that with pd-l2ork. > I've revised Miller's > > control/audio/ds tutorials. Pd-l2ork has fixed > the crasher bug when > > a patch closes itself, so I've got a navigation > toolbar in those > > tutorials > > that is currently incompatible with > pd-extended/vanilla. > > I had no idea. Ico seems to work on his own. It > would be great to > have those bug fixes submitted to the patch tracker. > The patch > tracker is what Miller, IOhannes, Martin Peach, me and > others use for > keeping track of patches that are meant to go into > pure-data core. He's also working off 0.42 currently, so submitting to the tracker would be pointless. I think someone was working to port the changes forward to 0.43, but Ico is currently on vacation and I'm not sure where they are in the process. > > > >> Or something > >> else? It > >>>> seems to me the > >>>> easiest would be to start a separate > repository > >> for them, > >>>> like on > >>>> SourceForge, pddp is available: http://sourceforge.net/projects/ > >>>> pddp > >>>> > >>>> Or we could reorganize doc/pddp in the > pure-data > >> SVN. > >>>> > >>>> .hc > >>> > >>> Since Pd-extended and Pd-l2ork already use the > PDDP > >> docs, the only thing > >>> we're talking about here is providing PDDP > docs for > >> people who use > >>> vanilla, and that's a simple commit. So > I don't > >> see why I have to head up > >>> some new project and learn Debian packaging in > order > >> to meander toward (or > >>> around) that goal. > >> > >> Its not a new project. I see it as a better > representation > >> of what's currently happening. You are doing > great > >> work with the PDDP docs, I think we can make the > structure > >> of that project work better for you. Having > it as a > >> distinct entity means you are less encumbered by > others when > >> making decisions about what should happen with > PDDP. > >> That distinct entity can be either a folder in the > pure-data > >> SVN, a separate SourceForge project, or whatever > we think is > >> easiest. I think one of the first two > options would > >> work well. > >> > >> I'm happy to do all of the Debian packaging, that > part > >> would be easy for me. > > > > So what is it you want me to do? > > To start with, choose a repository to work out of. > Shall we just > reorganize the doc/pddp folder in pure-data SVN? Then > make that the > home of your PDDP work, and I'll package it for Debian, and > make sure > the new layout works in Pd-extended. That works. Should it be merged with the current pddp libdir? > > .hc > > > > > > > >>> The only problem is with pddplink and > helplink > >> dependencies, which should > >>> just be included in vanilla as internal > objects. > >> Is there a good reason > >>> why they aren't? > >> > >> That's something you'd have to take up with > Miller, only he > >> makes the call there. Honestly, I think > we're better > >> off keeping things as distinct libraries. > Miller has > >> limited time to spend on Pd, so the more stuff > that's in Pd, > >> the thinner his time is spread. pd-pddp is > in > >> Debian/Ubuntu/Mint etc. For someone who > knows > >> Fedora/RPM packaging, it would be really easy to > package > >> it. Then PDDP is included in Pd-extended > already. So > >> that means for the vast majority of users, > pddplink and > >> helplink are already part of the standard > install. > >> > >>> Maybe my time would be better spent making a > "gui" > >> plugin that just grabs > >>> all the stuff that should be core pd but isn't > and > >> installs it: > >>> revised/maintained docs, [initbang], > [closebang], > >> [pddplink], [helplink], > >>> $@, etc. > >> > >> That's done, that's called Pd-extended ;) > >> > >> .hc > >> > >>> > >>> -Jonathan > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> > >>>> > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>> > >>>> Using ReBirth is like trying to play an > 808 with a > >> long > >>>> stick. - > >>>> David Zicarelli > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> The arc of history bends towards justice. > >> - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. > >> > >> > >> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > "A cellphone to me is just an opportunity to be irritated > wherever you > are." - Linus Torvalds > > _______________________________________________ Pd-dev mailing list [email protected] http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-dev
