To summarize, Graywolf is basically saying that the list has exerted too much negative peer pressure on our dear Antonio.
-Shawn -----Original Message----- From: graywolf [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 11:47 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Trolls You are referring to official censorship. There are several other forms. When someone tells others they can not talk about something that is censorship. The only form I recognize as a generally good thing is choosing not to participate in a discussion you do not like. You and I can agree not to talk about something. That is not censorship, but as soon as we think we have the right to tell Cotty, for example, that he is not to talk about it either, we have stepped over that line. Even then some censorship is sometimes a good thing, most of us do not want people cussing and swearing around kids, for example. But telling someone to not talk about something because I don't want to hear it, especially when I have the choice of not listening is to me the worse kind of censorship. It is the "I am the only one in the world whose opinion matters", "I am better than you", "you are shit", type. "I'm OK, you are not OK". Those kind of people are the worst thing that ever happened to society, and unfortunately they have happened to society over and over and over again. We seem to never learn. We should fight them tooth and nail, day and night, and never let them push their ways into being. It is an unfortunate thing that even nice people can step across that line without thinking. If my diatribes about keep a few of them from doing it unintentionally, they the are worth the effort. Hell, if the just keep me from doing it, they are worth the effort. Why would you think we have the right to tell someone to "shut up" when we are in effect eavsedropping on their conversation? It is not like someone is forcing us to read a thread that we don't wish to. It is not like the neighbors yelling at the top of their voices in the middle of the night. And if it were, do we have a right to demand more than that they hold it down to where we can not hear it? I don't believe so. Yes, there are things that we pretty much do not talk about on this list like politics, religion, etc. But they have pretty much been decided by mutual agreement. And the way to deal with someone talking about those things is to send them a polite e-mail explaining that to them, not jumping publicly down their throat. In fact that is simply called courtesy. -- frank theriault wrote: > Sorry, Tom, > > That is most certainly not censorship. It's call voicing an opinion. > Just as you did in your post, and I'm doing now. > > Censorship is when someone who has some amount of authority tells you > what you can say or not say, and when you are to say (or not say) it. > > This is an unmoderated list. As such, there's only self-censorship. > > But surely, surely, that doesn't preclude one from saying, "Shut the > **** up!" They're entitled to exercise their freedom of speech, as you > are yours. > > cheers, > frank > > ps: Don't mean to dump on you, but IMHO, the word censorship is bandied > about far to freely, and often used quite improperly. > > "The optimist thinks this is the best of all possible worlds. The > pessimist fears it is true." -J. Robert Oppenheimer > > > > >> From: graywolf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >> >> Relax, Antonio, you have just run into the "CENSORS", "I am not >> interested in that, so you can not discuss it". They completely ignore >> the fact that if no one was interested the thread would die. I have >> been fighting them for years. To be honest, sometimes, I like trolls >> better. Mostly though, except for their extreme self-centeredness, >> they are ok people. >> >> In this particular case however they have gone far beyond being jerks. >> They are the trolls here! >> >> Tell you what, why don't you tell us something about what Pentax >> equipment you use and your photographic interests? > > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN Premium with Virus Guard and Firewall* from McAfeeŽ Security : 2 > months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines > > > -- graywolf http://graywolfphoto.com/graywolf.html
