see my last post, I am talking about FACTUAL MATTERS in the descriptions, not things like "fat" guys...
Secondly, I stiil insist there no seller excuse for false claims at ebay just because the format is auction. BIN works exactly the same way, most of the BIN are part of combined BIN/Auction listings. No difference it what obligations the seller has to meet. JCO -----Original Message----- From: Wigwam Jones [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 4:53 PM To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: RE: Opinions wanted, ebay item condition > In the case of 1 thru 7 you listed below, its not > like that really. satisfaction has nothing to do > with it. Its all about meeting description. If a > seller says excellent and its actually missing a part or > has a functional defect than its not excellent. > IT DOESN'T MATTER that if seller didn't know, its > their responsibility to know before they claim > its in excellent condition. Nope. "Excellent" is subjective unless both parties agree ahead of time what excellent means. I say my Pentax *ist DS is in 'excellent condition'. You buy it and say you found a cat hair inside the mirror box, and you say the condition is only 'good.' Who is right? You want it so the seller always decides what the correct description is. It does not work that way. And no, that does not mean I can sell a camera that I drove over with my car as being in 'excellent condition'. It means that opinions vary. > So yes it usually IS and either or condition, > it either MEETS all claims made the desription > or it doesn't... Nope. Not even close. I can't imagine what kind of world you live in. I weigh 275 pounds. I either AM or I AM NOT fat. Which is it? You might say I'm fat. I might say I'm fat. My wife, bless her heart, says I'm not. Is she a liar? Misled? Just being nice? What if she honestly believes I'm not fat? I can't explain it any better. If you can't see anything but black and white, you're doomed to purchasing disappointment in your life. > Sure there are a lot of gray areas But you said that there were not any? You said "So yes it usually IS and either or condition." 'Usually' means mostly. You can't have 'a lot of gray areas' but usually not. You can't even be consistant yourself. > and most people > including myself wont argue that kind minor stuff > ( like very good vs. very good plus cosmetics etc) Yes, they do. They shine flashlights through lenses and examine them with a loupe. If they see a speck, it is not 'working' as far as they are concerned, because to their mind, it can't be used for the purpose intended. Everybody has a different idea, and there are a lot of freakazoids out there. > but when > a seller claims something works and it doesn't Agreed. > or > a seller claims mint and its very used/worn Agreed. > or a seller > claims original and it's a copy, etc etc etc, its > their problem for making the false claims and its > their loss on the shipping, return shipping, ebay > fees etc because they did not list it properly. Agreed. > Being an "auction" does not remove that responsibilty > and the buyer does not have to accept it and CAN > negoiate discount if they still want it and that not unethical or > unfair to do so IMHO. Return for the conditions you listed above? Fine. Negotiate a discount because you want to pay less than the final auction price and NOT because it was substantially misrepresented? That's fraud, that's illegal, and although I doubt it could ever be prosecuted, it is wrong. > The buyer does > NOT " have to take his chances" and eat the falsely advertised item > just because it was an ebay "auction". False? No. We seem to have a problem grasping the concept. If the description is honest from the seller's point of view, and the buyer just doesn't see it that way, then it is too bad for the buyer. That's an auction. > The way to prevent these problams/losses as a seller > is to be very careful and conservative in the grading > and descriptions. Not necessarily. There is always one a-hole who thinks that if you say 'probably broken' it means 'works like new'. > The way to prevent the problem > as a buyer is to ask questions and look for high > positive feedbacks. Yes, absolutely. > But I don't think its right > for you to say that a buyer should accept the unacceptable and not > attempt refund/renegoiate just because it was ebay auction and that's > how it works, that's NOT how it works. Yes, it is. Get used to it. Life works like that too.
