Jens,

Why isn't it acceptable? It's significantly superior to film performance at similar ISO's, and I still use film, as do many. Film performance is still now. Other manufacturers reduce noise primarily by overprocessing the images. Personally I found the high-ISO images from the D to be quite pleasing, I actually prefer them to the less natural images from a Canon at similar ISO's.

I see nothing wrong with those images. Quite nice as a matter of fact. Where's the problem?

-Adam


Jens Bladt wrote:
Adam. What on earth does this have to do with film??
I just want low noise at high ISO speeds. Other manufacturers makes digital
cameras with less noise at 1600-3200 ISO. I have had quite a few complaints
about the noise. Take a look for your self, this is not acceptable for a pro
level camera:
http://www.jensbladt.dk/Bedste-dag-album/index.html

You see - somtimes it's not acceptable to use a flash - and sometimes it's
impossible (concert shots, rooms with a dark cieling - or very tall rooms) -
and I don't even like the angle of direct flash. Furthermore a flash is a
PITA for the persons getting photographed. Nice and natural looking pix is
what I want: Making the best of the available light should be the objective
for any camera manufacturer. Cetainly for Pentax. This calls for very high
sensitivity at very low noice levels.

I do know that film used to be even worse. But that was yesterday. Talking
about the new high end Pentax DSLR is now!
Regards
Jens

Jens Bladt
http://www.jensbladt.dk

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: Adam Maas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sendt: 12. februar 2006 01:44
Til: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
Emne: Re: New High End DSLR Speculation


Jens,

I've found that in decent light the *istD has about as much noise at
3200 as NPZ800 has grain, in low light it gets worse, but it never
exceeds ISO3200 speed films (which are noticably worse). Because of
that, I have come to the conclusion that 'high noise issues' are mostly
an irrelevant complaint. Even the worst DSLR's on the amrket today
display less noise than the equivalent film has grain at ISO 800 and up.

-Adam


Jens Bladt wrote:


Shel Wrote:
I find it sad that you prefer, or choose, to limit your
photographic expression...

I don't. I can choose to use shallow DOF any time I want - as long as I

have

fast shutterspeeds, slow film/low ISO Speed, sharp lenses or long focal
lengths.

What I can't choose, anytime I want, is DOF. And I happen to want that
pretty often. For the reasons previously described. So, I wish for better
quaility sensors - with very low noice at high speeds. This will give me -
and everybody else - more choises. More freedom of expression. How can that
be limiting myself. I just don't get it - I'm sorry.

I am not the only one who have been concerned about the relativly high

noice

levels, rendereed by the SONY sensor in the *ist D. Many reviews and Pentax
DSLR users have too. I wish for this issue to be addressed. This is what i
expect form a future high end Pentax DSLR.

If the noice levels are not improved (and the speed issues), I'll probably
be looking elsewhere for future investments.
I guess I have said the same thing many times by now: I expect better image
quality (more MP, lower noice levels) and faster speeds (SF, FPS and  -
especially - write speed) from a future high end Pentax DSLR.
Is this really too much to ask?

Regards
Jens Bladt
http://www.jensbladt.dk

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: Shel Belinkoff [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sendt: 11. februar 2006 22:58
Til: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
Emne: RE: New High End DSLR Speculation


OK, we have very different opinions about what's required in the way of DOF
to make a "good" photograph.  There are literally 23, 987, 645
photographers who believe that good photographs can be made using shallow
DOF.  Portraits are but one example that such a technique often benefits.
That said, the softening or blurring of backgrounds (and, perhaps to a
lesser degree, foregrounds), has been considered a very viable and helpful
technique almost since the dawn of photography.

Capturing "reality," as you suggest, isn't always desirable, or indicative
of a good photograph.  Many people, both on this list and off, myself
included, can give numerous examples of this.  A photograph isn't, never
was, and never will be, reality.

Personally, I find it sad that you prefer, or choose, to limit your
photographic expression, although, based on the photos of yours that I've
seen, a somewhat greater DOF to achieve some additional sharpness may serve
you well.  But to make so broad a statement as you have is, perhaps,
disrespectful, and certainly it discounts, the vision and sensibilities of
others.

I now stand by my pre-caffeined thought that your statement is inane.

Shel






[Original Message]
From: Jens Bladt





Shel, I believe you might need another cup of coffee.
Having enjoyed such a drink you may want to give it a second thought,



after



which I'm sure you'll agree that:(

(Here I wanted to make a long speach about why they invented lenses (in
stead of just using pin hole cameras) and why they - at the same time -
invented adjustable apertures - in order to allow stopping down the used
lenses (to a small hole - pretty much like the pi hole camera, which  by



the



eay will render very sharp images - without using a lens) - in order to
achieve better sharpness than the big lenses could provide fully "open").

But I won't.
In stead of starting with the basic history of photography, I'll just



remind



you, that the world is three dimentional - it's round - not flat like at
lens test target. This means, that in order to make photographs, that by
most people can be recogniosed as a good photograph (which BTW means that



it



looks at least a little like the real subject) has at least some



resemblence



with the world we know and see, a certain amount of Dept Of Field is
required.

This is why I want better image quality/less noice at high ISO speeds. I
want to use my lenses stoped down - not fully opened. That is why I don't
want "faster glas", Faster glas means LESS DOF - provided, naturally, I'm
actually using this speed (read: large apertueres) to render pictures.
That's what i DON'T want. - most of the time.
I would shoot 90% of all photographs at F.8- F. 11 if I my gear would



allow



me to.

Regards
Jens

Jens Bladt
http://www.jensbladt.dk

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: Shel Belinkoff [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sendt: 11. februar 2006 15:22
Til: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
Emne: RE: New High End DSLR Speculation


At first read, that seems to be a most inane statement, but maybe there's
more to it than my pre morning coffee brain can understand.  Perhaps you
can elaborate upon it, specifically, why is a certain range of DOF
important for "good" photographs, what is a good photograph, and what does
sensor or film size have to do with anything?  Thank you for your
indulgence.

Shel






[Original Message]
From: Jens Bladt <


Most good photographs will require at least some DOF (F.4 - F.8) for
APS-sized sensors.












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