Jens,
Fascism is an ideology founded by a communist (Which is what Mussolini
was before he founded the fascist movement). The fact that two socialist
movements have come come to blows doesn't mean they are significantly
different. It's often that two similar but non-compatible groups fight
things out (See Fatah and Hamas in the Palestinian Territories, which
appear to be headed towards a nasty little civil war right now).
Communists have long tended to kill off anyone of slightly differing
views when they got into power (See Stalin, Trotsky, as well as Mao's
little Cultural Revolution). It's not unusual that otherwise similar
groups oppose each other rabidly, because they are competing for the
same pool of recruits (This issue fed the enmity between the Communists
and National Socialists in Germany in the late 1920's and early 1930's,
when both were primarily recruiting from disaffected labour workers, it
was the Nazi's branching out to appeal to the rural disaffected
Hausfrau, with their appeal to 'traditional german values' that put them
in position to enact their coup in 1933 after they joined the coalition
government because von Hindenburg had a hate on for the communists)
Also Pinochet was not a Fascist. he was a right-wing military dictator
(Which is NOT the actual definition of fascism). The only 'right-wing'
Fascist was Franco, who was only right-wing by the European Definition
thereof (which defines Right-Wing as Nationalist). Most European
'Right-Wing' groups are solidly left-wing by our standards over here
(Where Right Wing is essentially defined economically, free-market
capitalism or corporatism are the economic tenets which mostly define
the Right Wing over here, while Social Conservatives are more likely to
be right wing, although many are left wing, especially Black Church
leaders).
Fascism is often used as a generic term for militaristic nationalist
movements. Which is incorrect. It is militaristic and nationalist
ideology, but with a heavy socialist collectivist bent. The latter is
where the term Fascism comes from, the Roman Fasces [a bundle of sticks
surrounding an axe] was used as a symbol of colelctive power. It also
lacks the explicit racism of the otherwise similar National Socialism.
In fact no Fascist state was a military dictatorship like Chile under
Pinochet, the subservience of the Military to the government, and the
leadership was a primary tenet of fascist movements and their relations
(like National Socialism and Ba'athism). The defining difference between
Fascism and National Socialism is Fascism's lack of a Fuhrerprinzip,
whiel Fascism tends towards string leaders, it doesn't make a religious
issue of them like National Socialism does.
-Adam
Jens Bladt wrote:
Adam wrote:
Fascism is a form of socialism.
You have got that totally wrong, Adam, no doubt in my mind.
But you can believe that if you want. That will probably serve the right
wing well.
Of course right-wing people, already in power, want you to believe that.
In my mind the incident concerning Salvodor Allende in Chile - a
democtratically elected socialist president, who was removed and killed by
right-wing forces and replaced with Pinochet - a fascist military general -
proves beyond any doubt, that fascism and socialism is two opposite
philosophies. Tell the people of Chile, that socialism and fascism is one
and the same thing. Tell this to all the families who lost their loved ones
to the fascist regime. I'm sure they will agree with you!
Regards
Jens
Jens Bladt
http://www.jensbladt.dk
-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: Adam Maas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sendt: 17. februar 2006 19:20
Til: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
Emne: Re: Religion, Christ vs. the Other Guy
Jens,
Fascism is a form of socialism. However, Stalin, who never had any
contact with Fascists before acquiring power, was certainly not a
Fascist. He was a tyrant, and a communist, but far more the former than
the latter, and persecuted anyone who might challenge him or oppose him
(including anyone who openly supported true marxist socialism, like
Trotsky).
Fascism was invented by a communist newspaper editor by the name of
Benito Mussolini. The only other Fascist leader to actually take power
was Franco in Spain, the term is used very inappropriately to describe
collectivist Nationalist dictatorships.
National Socialism actually predates Fascism (The NSDAP was founded at
the end of WW1, although it wouldn't acquire an explicit ideological
platform until 1923 with Mein Kampf), and has had many more imitators.
In fact the Ba'ath Arab Socialist Party was founded in 1943 explicitly
as a Arab version of the National Socialist German Workers Party. It
later grew into the brutal regimes that would rule Iraq from 1968 to
2003 and Syria to this day.
Hugo Chavez in Venezuela today is drawing heavily from the NSDAP
playbook (Right down to forming his own version of the SA), albeit with
a more explicitly Internationalist Socialist ideology and a distinct
lack of racism (Anti-americanism is sufficing in replacement, but the
only real requirement of the tactic is a group that is either external
or isolated and generally disliked to blame all their woes on).
-Adam
Jens Bladt wrote:
Collin:
Hitler or Stalin never wanted to let the people rule, which I believe is
fundamental a socialistic philosophy. They just wanted power AND wealth.
They didn't even want democracy as weknow it.
It has been proven - by research made in Russia - after the fall of the
USSR - that Stalin systematically persecuted supporters of the socialistic
philosophy. They were imprisoned, tortured and finally forced to admit too
crimes they never committed. Then executed. That's a fact. Stalin was NOT
a
socialist as far as I'm concerned. He was an opportunist - and a fascist
one
at that.
All the best
Jens
Jens Bladt
http://www.jensbladt.dk
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