I agree with Paul. Not that I see every posted image, but if I really can't find something sufficiently pleasing about an image, I often convey these feelings by not commenting. Doesn't happen often, at least not that I've recently noticed, but I find it particularly inappropriate for a third party to jump to an indignant defense of an image by means of demeaning comments directed at the critique's author.
Jack . ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Stenquist <pnstenqu...@comcast.net> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List <pdml@pdml.net> Cc: Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 5:02 AM Subject: Re: Giving and taking criticism On Nov 26, 2011, at 3:16 AM, Christine Aguila wrote: > I agree with Rick and Brian. And I agree with Ken. Everyone on the PDML is > capable of giving frank and respectful critique. Everyone has the rhetorical > skills and the photographic technical skills. I wasn't on the list when the > situation Bill refers to took place, but I just can't recall a time when > anyone came rhetorically close to repeating that situation since I've been on > the list, yet there have been plenty of times PDMLers received helpful > critique, and I've benefited from it. Like Larry, I find it helpful when > reading the critiques of other people's work. Like Brian has said, "Can't we > just move on?" > Of course. And I think we have. I only referred to the situation Bill mentioned, because the overall negative reaction to that particular critique of so many years ago was justified. I think our discussions of posted photos are appropriate for this type of list. Tips are frequently offered and questions are raised. When no one comments on a photo I've posted, I count that as a statement in itself: BORING! > Cheers, Christine > > > On Nov 25, 2011, at 10:01 PM, "Brian Walters" <supera1...@fastmail.fm> wrote: > >> On Friday, November 25, 2011 6:45 PM, "Rick Womer" >> <rwomer1...@yahoo.com> wrote: >>> Having nominated Bill for a "Mark!", I don't agree with him. >>> >>> Over the summer I posted a view from a New Hampshire peak. I got lots of >>> interesting and useful comments, and one list member manipulated the >>> photo in LR and posted a version much better than mine. I learned a lot >>> from that--it is this group at its best. >>> >>> When a pic falls short, I want to know why. Several people here are >>> gratifyingly, constructively critical. >>> >>> When I have a pic that works, it's nice to be told so, and also be told >>> =why= people think it works. Many listers are good at that, too. >>> >>> What I don't like is getting no comments on a photo at all. If it's "an >>> excruciatingly boring, poor rendering of a banal and cliched subject" I'd >>> like to know that. If it's technically great but the subject is lacking, >>> or vice versa, I'd like to know that, too. >>> >> >> >> I pretty much agree with Rick on this. >> >> I only vaguely recall the issue that Bill and Paul referred to, when a >> particularly scathing and personal critique was given. That must be >> nudging 8-10 years ago, but it seems to have put a permanent moratorium >> on providing full and frank feedback. Can't we move on? >> >> >> Cheers >> >> Brian >> >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> Brian Walters >> Western Sydney Australia >> http://lyons-ryan.org/southernlight/ >> >> >> >> >> >>> Rick >>> >>> http://photo.net/photos/RickW >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: William Robb <anotherdrunken...@gmail.com> >>> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List <pdml@pdml.net> >>> Cc: >>> Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 7:06 PM >>> Subject: Re: Giving and taking criticism >>> >>> On 25/11/2011 2:18 PM, Larry Colen wrote: >>> >>>> One thing I haven't seen a lot of is discussion on how to give and take >>>> criticism. And a related discussion >>> of what venues on the net, or off, are good for that sort of discussion. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>> That's because we don't offer criticism here. We had a regular member who >>> attempted it one time; he was promptly chased off the island. >>> It put a very real chill on the entire concept of giving an honest >>> critique of images that get shown here, since any honest critique will >>> likely have some criticism accompanying it (that being what the word >>> critique kind of come from.) >>> I tried to give a critique one time and was told to accept the photograph >>> on it's own merits, and either accept it for what it was or STFU. >>> And now you know why most every photograph that is shown here, whether it >>> be a stunning landscape or a tedious snapshot of a child playing with a >>> kitten gets, more or less, the same response (great capture, stunning >>> image, etc) or no comment at all. >>> >>> Most people don't want a critique, they want an ego massage, and no one >>> likes to be told that their image is an excruciatingly boring, poor >>> rendering of a banal and cliched subject. >>> >>> -- >>> William Robb >>> >>> -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>> PDML@pdml.net >>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and >>> follow the directions. >>> >>> >> -- >> >> >> -- >> http://www.fastmail.fm - Same, same, but different... >> >> >> -- >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> PDML@pdml.net >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and >> follow the directions. >> > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
