Edwina, List: Your labeling of evaluations such as "unPeircean" and "more/less legitimate" as "Gatekeeper terminology" is likewise a judgmental assertion that expresses your personal opinion. If we were to forbid all such statements from the List, then there would be very little discussion at all going forward; it would thus "block the way of inquiry" (CP 1.135, EP 2:48; 1898). Please also note that I have not applied these or any similar descriptions to anything that you have (or anyone else has) said in the current thread; nor have I argued here or elsewhere that "Peircean semiosis is confined to the philosophies of logic or metaphysics." I have simply suggested that we be clear about whether we are talking about those branches of philosophy (as I usually am) or about broader applications in the physical and biological sciences (as you usually are).
That said, it is not the case, at least according to Peirce, that logic and metaphysics apply *exclusively *"within the human conceptual domain." "For normative science in general being the science of the laws of conformity of things to ends, ... logic [considers] those things whose end is to represent something" (CP 5.129, EP 2:200; 1903). "Logic regarded from one instructive, though partial and narrow, point of view, is the theory of deliberate thinking. To say that any thinking is deliberate is to imply that it is controlled with a view to making it conform to a purpose or ideal" (CP 1.573, EP 2:376; 1906). Hence the normative science of logic as semeiotic explores how "every intelligence which can learn from experience" (CP 3.428; 1896) *ought *to go about pursuing truth as "the conformity of a representamen to its object" (CP 5.554, EP 2:380; 1906). Likewise, "Metaphysics ... endeavors to comprehend the Reality of Phenomena" (CP 2:197; 1903). "Its business is to study the most general features of reality and real objects" (CP 6.6, EP 2:375; 1906). By contrast, it seems to me that biosemiotics falls under the special sciences, rather than philosophy. "For those [special] sciences, experience is that which their special means of observation directly bring to light, and it is contrasted with the interpretations of those observations which are effected by connecting these experiences with what we otherwise know. But for philosophy, which is the science which sets in order those observations which lie open to every man every day and hour, experience can only mean the total cognitive result of living, and includes interpretations quite as truly as it does the matter of sense" (CP 7.538; undated). Do we at least agree on that much? Regards, Jon On Mon, Jan 22, 2018 at 10:00 AM, Edwina Taborsky <[email protected]> wrote: > - Jon - my final comment on this is that to declare that another view is > 'unPeircean' or is 'more/less legitimate' is Gatekeeper terminology for it > inserts a non-individual judgment. > > Yes, I read your full post - and don't agree that biosemiotics goes > ''well beyond what Peirce explicitly stated'...After all, if it goes 'well > beyond' the explicit, 'while still remaining within the scope of broadly > Peircean views'...then, you have watered biosemiotics down to a peripheral > and even diluted or 'free' Peircean semiosis. As you say - such a > definition that you use implies a 'freedom' of interpretation. Those of us > who refer to his many references to Mind as Matter disagree that Peircean > semiosis is confined to the philosophies of logic or metaphysics - both of > which are within the human conceptual domain. Instead, we consider > that biosemiotics is fully grounded in basic Peircean semiotics. Not 'well > beyond' but fully grounded'. > > that's it. > > Edwina > > On Mon 22/01/18 10:45 AM , Jon Alan Schmidt [email protected] sent: > > Edwina, List: > > A gatekeeper is someone who seeks to restrict what others say and do; I > have simply expressed my personal opinion, exactly the same as you. Did > you even read my whole post, or just stop and react after the second > sentence? Please note what I said in the last sentence, in particular. In > the past, I have not adequately recognized the difference between talking > about biosemiotics and talking about semeiotic within logic and > metaphysics, for which I hereby apologize. > > Thanks, > > Jon > > On Mon, Jan 22, 2018 at 9:16 AM, Edwina Taborsky <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Jon, list - using the term 'more legitimate' is terminology used by a >> Gatekeeper. After all, to declare that 'some readings of Peirce are more >> legitimate' is exactly the wording used by a Gatekeeper - who declares that >> some 'readings/interpretations' are 'more legitimate'! Legitimate >> according to what non-individual authoritative scale? >> >> As I said - all each one of us, who are each equal to each other and each >> as dumb/smart as each other can do - is to state that our individual >> interpretation agrees/disagrees with another - and that's all. >> >> As Peirce himself said - to leave truth up to an individual is 'most >> pernicious' - and no individual has the right to say that a >> reading/interpretation is 'more legitimate/truthful than another. Again - >> all one can do is say: I personally disagree - and my own view is >> quite different and is such and such. Period. None of us has the right to >> declare that another view has a universal non-validity [i.e., is 'not >> legitimate']. ...You can't say it's 'unPeircean' or is 'not legitimate' >> because that inserts an external authoritative criterion. All you can do is >> say: I, personally, don't agree..... >> >> Edwina >> >> On Mon 22/01/18 9:48 AM , Jon Alan Schmidt [email protected] sent: >> >> Edwina, List: >> >> I never have and never would set myself up as gatekeeper to Peirce or >> some kind of authoritative interpreter of his writings. What I have argued >> in the past, but have no desire to rehash now, is that some readings of >> Peirce (or any other author) are more legitimate than others. Instead, I >> respectfully would like to suggest that when we discuss semeiotic concepts >> and terminology, we should be clear about the specific level of Peirce's >> architectonic classification of the sciences in which we are operating. >> There are at least three that seem to come up regularly. >> >> 1. The normative science of logic as semeiotic. >> 2. The metaphysical doctrine of semeiotic realism. >> 3. The special science of biology, which includes biosemiotics. >> >> This order corresponds not only to how they are arranged in Peirce's >> scheme, but also to how much he had to say directly about them during his >> lifetime. As such, I acknowledge that there is more freedom in >> biosemiotics--the topic of this particular thread--than in the >> philosophical aspects of semeiotic (logic and metaphysics) to go well >> beyond anything that Peirce explicitly stated, while still remaining within >> the scope of broadly Peircean views. >> >> Regards, >> >> Jon Alan Schmidt - Olathe, Kansas, USA >> Professional Engineer, Amateur Philosopher, Lutheran Layman >> www.LinkedIn.com/in/JonAlanSchmidt - twitter.com/JonAlanSchmidt >> >> On Sun, Jan 21, 2018 at 11:54 AM, Edwina Taborsky <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Just one other comment. I think that we have to be careful on this list >>> [and I am NOT referring to you, John] that we do not set ourselves up as >>> gatekeepers to Peirce. One or two people on this list seem to think that >>> way - i.e.,I've been told several times that my views are 'UnPeircean'. My >>> response is that we are all equal; I, for example, am as smart and as dumb >>> as any other person. I don't think that anyone can tell another person that >>> their views are 'unPeircean' or are 'not Peirce' because none of us are the >>> Authoritative Gatekeepers of What is Peirce. All one can say is: 'I >>> disagree with your view'.....and outline your own view. That's it. >>> >>
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