No, Barkeley. He was well liked, but students flocked to his classes,
stranding other teachers without a flock. They resented his teaching --
or at least the students' response to it.
On Tue, Mar 06, 2001 at 01:50:16PM -0500, J. Barkley Rosser, Jr. wrote:
> michael,
> I think you are overstating it here. I doubt that
> it is an actual negative in most places, although there
> are certainly many places where it simply does not
> count at all, either negative or positive. There are
> ways to check on the standards used, e.g. by looking
> at grades given or by asking students on an evaluation
> form what the "level of challenge" was in the class.
> I suspect what you saw was a case where they did
> not want the person for other reasons, politics, research,
> personality issues, whatever, and had to dismiss his/her
> apparent ability as a teacher. That happens a lot, but it
> is hardly the same thing as saying that the good teaching
> was actually a negative. Was this person actually fired
> because they were a good teacher? The only way I can
> imagine that happening is out of jealousy by colleagues.
> But that would only happen if good teaching mattered. If
> it doesn't, then why bother?
> Barkley Rosser
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Perelman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Monday, March 05, 2001 10:42 PM
> Subject: [PEN-L:8709] Re: farewell to academe
>
>
> >Actually, good teaching is a negative in hiring. It can always be
> >explained away. He/she had low standards. I saw that pulled on the best
> >teacher in my department in Berkeley.
> >
> >On Mon, Mar 05, 2001 at 10:26:04PM -0500, Nathan Newman wrote:
> >> What is sad is that teaching is so little respected in hiring decisions.
> I
> >> have to say that I was incredibly spoiled getting to go to the small
> liberal
> >> arts college thing. At Amherst, students sat on hiring committees and
> >> student letters would kill a prof coming up for tenure if he or she
> stunk,
> >> so the faculty either were good teachers or learned how to do it at an
> >> acceptable level. It amazes me that at both Berkeley and Yale, really
> >> terrible teaching is allowed to exist and it makes almost no difference
> in
> >> hiring and tenure decisions.
> >>
> >> My basic attitude is that a good teacher, even with conservative
> politics,
> >> is a far more radical thing than a radical prof who sucks at teaching. A
> >> good teacher awakens excitement and engagement and I think that is
> >> ultimately more likely to lead to radical reevaluation of the world and
> >> possibilities.
> >>
> >> It is the deadening of imagination that most breeds apathy and acceptance
> of
> >> the status quo.
> >>
> >> It's not that I denigrate radical scholarship, since I'm a good consumer
> of
> >> it, but there is no question in my mind that my radicalism was more fed
> by
> >> the good teachers I had early in life, and not necessarily just the
> radical
> >> ones, far more than any particular book I may have read.
> >>
> >> -- Nathan Newman
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Michael Yates" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 8:39 PM
> >> Subject: [PEN-L:8698] Re: Re: farewell to academe
> >>
> >>
> >> Nathan,
> >>
> >> Your comments are very well taken. Two comments: Most teachers are not
> >> very good at it and do not take the time to learn how to teach
> >> effectively. Second, new teachers, including progressives, say that
> >> they cannot make waves til they get tenure. But passivity becomes a
> >> habit, and it is rare inded that a professor who kept quiet for 7 years
> >> suddenly becomes a troublemaker. I have supported for tenure some
> >> persons with whom I had sharp political disagreements just because they
> >> were troublemakers from the start.
> >>
> >> Michael Yates
> >>
> >> Nathan Newman wrote:
> >> >
> >> > I have to say that I have great sympathy for Michael's commentary on
> left
> >> > academia. I never really intended to be an academic, although there
> were
> >> > short periods when I considered it while working on my Ph.D., but the
> >> > biggest deterrent was that I didn't want "to be" any of the folks I saw
> in
> >> > the professoriat-- talking the talk but doing almost nothing to engage
> >> snip
> >>
> >>
> >
> >--
> >Michael Perelman
> >Economics Department
> >California State University
> >Chico, CA 95929
> >
> >Tel. 530-898-5321
> >E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
>
--
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
Chico, CA 95929
Tel. 530-898-5321
E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
