Yoshie Furuhashi wrote:
>
> Mark says:
>
> >Yoshie Furuhashi:
> > > It's impossible to modernize industry & agriculture globally _under
> >> capitalism_, but _under socialism_ it is possible.
> >
> >How? Slogans don't cut it.
>
> First of all, doing away with capitalist relations of production
>
Regardless of what can or can't be done within socialist relations of
production, we know (it's not worth arguing) that not much is going to
be done inside capitalism about any of the crises Lou & Mark outline. We
also know that between us and any other conceivable social order there
is going to be immense destruction and bloodshed (with or without
revolutions). We also know that a reasonably substantial proportion of
the revolutions that succeed momentarily are going to fail (and there is
no way whatsoever that we can predict in advance which ones will fail
and which ones will succeed. Incidentally, all this applies even if you
assume a "peaceful" overthrow of capitalism, for the events leading up
to an actual majority for socialism inside capitalism (an unimaginable
fantasy, but let's imagine it) would involve various preemptive bloody
strikes by the capitalist class, deathsquad activity, burning cities,
endless acts of sabotage and terrorism, etc. (The terrorism will occur
even though it is a stupid political tactic -- anarchists are as much a
product of capitalism as are large corporations. Neither will disappear
until capitalism disappears.)
And even after any successful overthrow of capitalism (gradual or
sudden, peaceful or violent), no major changes will be made at once. It
will be a long process. You don't however have to worry about workers in
advanced societies clinging to luxuries -- by the time socialism comes
to power, given the long disruptive period that would take, three meals
a day and a peaceful night's sleep will be luxuries even in Paris or
Peoria for the bulk of the population.) Yammer about the Aztecs or any
other pre-capitalist society is about as useful as handing out _The Lord
of the Rings_ in pamphlet form at factory gates.
Carrol
