Mark - Sorry for not responding sooner to these ideas. They've been rolling around in my head for the last couple of days, so, here goes.
On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 11:22 AM, MARK BAKER <[email protected]> wrote: > I have gotten the the core PDL functionallity to work with the PP > PAR::packer > This is a very interesting concept. I can't recall if you've mentioned this in the past, but I have not given it much thought until now. > with the one exception of the TriD.pm which throws some errors at me... > Yes, TriD will be *very* difficult to get working with PAR::Packer, I expect. But read on. > if we can show that we can make the exe's possibly with Tk to have full > functionality like MatLab, (that means trying to streamline a lot of code) > then we can have a Open Source software where we can go into the code and > get it to work the way we want, there we solve both ends of the needs 1. > the need for it to work 2. to be able to get into the code and change what > we want to change based on our ideas of functionality > I may sound like a broken record here, but I would advocate for Prima over Tk. In fact, I have a (very simple, somewhat hackish) GUI REPL built on Prima and PDL that I would be willing to distribute, or at least try to distribute. Perhaps I can play with this more later this week or over the weekend. At any rate, it would be *really neat* to be able to post downloadable executables on PDL's website that users could run on their machines without having to install. If we could find a way to include an unpackage/install onto the user's machine, kinda like a PAR LiveDisk, that would be even cooler. But I need to learn to walk before I can run, as they say. :-) What are the command-line switches you use to pack your script? I just glanced through the PAR::Packer docs, but it seems like many options are possible and I'm not quite sure where to start. > And I have gotten the exe's to work on other computers using the same type > of operating system (Windows 2008 at the moment only) if we want a one shot > for all types of operating systems then we want to use C# am I right about > that , as far as i know > No, C# will not be necessary. PDL's guts are written in C, which is more cross-platform and faster than C#. The only limitation with C is that it must be compiled for the target machine, which in practice means we need access to a working copy of that OS. As we need working copy to an OS in order to test PDL anyway, this is not a limitation in practice. > PDL is very important because of the way it allows you to use equations in > text book style way going from a text book to software in a simple way, > that's why I like it; for example with Mathematica you have to follow a > strict level of how they want you to put in your code which forces you to > adhere to there Ideas of structure... > Mathematica has *much* better typesetting and can do symbolic manipulation. I think there are Perl modules for this, but they've not been combined with PDL as far as I am aware. Ultimately, though, I'd say that Perl and PDL impose a similar requirement on how you express your ideas, but they look more like C crossed with Matlab than they look like Mathematica. Different strokes for different folks. > With PDL you can make your own structure which I think is very > satisfying, and allows you to make your code according to a simpler > theory..if you so desire > > I hope to be working on these problems soon, to make a "Quantum Chemistry > 3D software" for Mac's Window's and Linuxes and the ability for the user to > go into the code ("which is C streamlined with perl and PDL" in the > future possibly C# ) (with the perl & PDL modules and open-source code will > be free for any one to use and you can build the exe with pp ) (The > exception is with the compiled version which will have support, funded by > advertizing on the support's website) > Lots of parentheses there. Everybody can already get at the underlying C and Perl code, so PAR::Packer will help with first-time users. BTW, I don't see us doing anything commercial with PDL any time soon. It would go somewhat against the grain of PDL's style from the last 15 years. There are many more possible software products that can be built that can > have a impact on our future for the advancement of our technology and the > sciences, this is just one example, so we can get "PDL to survive" we just > have to organize how we go about getting it to have every thing that people > need and the type of functionality they want, and how to approach the full > time support problem with free open source software, and the costs > involved... > I don't think there's any way we can make PDL have everything that people need. What we can do is encourage people to write their own PDL-using modules and put them on CPAN. > I hope to have a preview of the support site by February 10 2012 I will > let every one know ... > I'm skeptical about a support website. PDL's current line of support is the mailing lists and we don't get very many hits here from new users. I wonder how things might look if it were possible for people to send an email to the mailing list from our web site, though? Any web hackers want to give this a shot? > ------------------------------ > *From:* Joel Berger <[email protected]> > *To:* Chris Marshall <[email protected]> > *Cc:* "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Friday, January 20, 2012 8:25 AM > > *Subject:* Re: [Perldl] Getting What Is Missing > > Chris et al. > > I am working on a generic Alien:: framework called Alien::Base, hosted > at my gh: > > https://github.com/jberger/Alien-Base . > > I submitted a proposal to tpf a small grant, here is the text for the > concept: > > https://gist.github.com/1616923 > > Once this works, it should make Alien:: modules much easier to write. > > Joel > > On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 9:12 AM, Chris Marshall <[email protected]> > wrote: > > On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 4:52 PM, Clifford Sobchuk > > <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> ...don't fully understand what they need to do? Even installing on > Linux. I > >> have tried to build PDL from CPAN and I never get it right. The best > way for > >> me is to do the apt-get install pdl and then go into cpan and do the > upgrade > >> /PDL/. All of the dependencies are accounted when I do it this way. > When I > >> install from cpan I always end up missing dependencies. > > > > Hi Cliff- > > > > Yes, the large number of external dependencies > > used by PDL to provide "full" functionality is an > > ongoing problem. > > > > The simplest way to install PDL on linux-ish > > systems having some sort of package manager > > is to use that to install PDL which should pull > > in packages for the needed external library > > and program dependencies. Then use CPAN > > to upgrade to the latest PDL. > > > > There has already been discussion and decision > > on using the Alien module approach to address > > this problem---just no one volunteering to write > > the needed Alien::NetPBM, Alien::PROJ4,... > > modules. > > > >> So am I the minority of target users (people who use PDL and don't have > a > >> clue at how to create their own PP modules) in not being able to get it > to > >> install from cpan directly? When I use R/scilab/matlab - I use modules > when > >> ever I can because it would take me weeks more time to develop a > script. On > >> the other hand if your target user is a C++/Perl expert, then please > >> disregard the above as it doesn't apply. > > > > I don't think PDL has a chance of surviving as an > > active and growing project unless we can make > > it possible for anyone to "just use" PDL. Without > > a 1-click install, easy interoperability, and good > > documentation all the non-C/Perl programmer > > scientists will be using Matlab/Octave, or NumPy, > > or ... instead. > > > > Cheers, > > Chris > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Perldl mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://mailman.jach.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/perldl > > _______________________________________________ > Perldl mailing list > [email protected] > http://mailman.jach.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/perldl > > > > _______________________________________________ > Perldl mailing list > [email protected] > http://mailman.jach.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/perldl > > David -- Sent via my carrier pigeon.
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