Hi,
> On Aug 3, 2016, at 11:16 AM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaih...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > 2016-08-03 10:02 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <tu...@tudorgirba.com>: > Hi, > > > On Aug 3, 2016, at 9:16 AM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaih...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > 2016-06-18 23:34 GMT+02:00 Nicolai Hess <nicolaih...@gmail.com>: > > > > > > 2016-06-18 20:55 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <tu...@tudorgirba.com>: > > Hi, > > > > Command is an actual key on Mac next to Option(which is Alt) and Control. > > So, Command is a concrete key and mapping it logically to another key on > > another platform is mixing semantics. > > > > I propose to have two distinct layers in the image: > > 1. the raw layer is about having a distinct selector for each concrete key > > that is found on the keyboard. Right now, it seems to me that the VM does a > > bit of interpretation and mapping, and if it does, I think it should just > > provide a distinct code for each distinct key. > > 2. the portable layer is about having a couple of selectors (e.g., #meta, > > #secondaryMeta) that provide consistent mappings to the raw keys. > > > > So, in this way, #command/#control/#alt would belong to layer 1. and > > #meta/#secondaryMeta (we could find a better name) would belong to layer 2. > > > > Does this make sense? > > > > > > So, what does that mean for the text navigation mapping in Rubric. Which > > shortcut should I use? > > > > Any way to take a decision? > > > > I don't really want to wait until we implement a new layer. > > Thanks for the ping. > > I think that you cannot use now properly a uniform shortcut if we do not > introduce these “layers”. I also think that we are talking about a couple of > methods, so the effort is only in making the decision. I think that given > that nobody disagreed, we can go ahead with it. > > For the specific question related to text navigation in Rubric, you could use > #meta. > > But how? > If I add this to RubTextEditor class>>#buildShortcutsOn: aBuilder > > > (aBuilder shortcut: #nextWord) > category: RubTextEditor name > default: Character arrowRight meta > do: [ :target :morph :event | target editor cursorRight: event] > description: 'move to next word'. > > > > (aBuilder shortcut: #previousWord) > category: RubTextEditor name > default: Character arrowLeft meta > do: [ :target :morph :event | target editor cursorLeft: event] > description: 'move to the previous word'. > > > we can not dive in/out in spotter. > > This is why I asked: > > Why did the shortcut for dive-in element/category changed from > cmd+right > cmd+shift+right > to > ctrl+right > ctrl+shift+right Oh, I see now! The change was made from cmd+right to meta+right in the move of Guille to make all keybindings uniform. If a keybinding would be problematic in Spotter, we could also override the keybinding directly in the Spotter editor, I think. What do you think? Cheers, Doru > > > What do you think? > > Doru > > > > > Cheers, > > Doru > > > > > > > On Jun 18, 2016, at 8:42 PM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaih...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > 2016-06-17 18:25 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <tu...@tudorgirba.com>: > > > Hi Nicolai, > > > > > > > On Jun 17, 2016, at 2:59 PM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaih...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2016-06-17 14:35 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <tu...@tudorgirba.com>: > > > > Hi Nicolai, > > > > > > > > I am a bit removed from the code details at the moment, and I think I > > > > need to step back a bit :). > > > > > > > > If I understand correctly, you are saying that: > > > > 1. defining bindings with #alt does not work on Windows. This means > > > > that we should fix this one. Using Cmd should not be a solution here. > > > > > > > > As far as I know, this is on purpose. A key pressed with windows (left) > > > > alt modified is mapped to "command" > > > > > > > > from vm source: > > > > > > > > * 3) The modifier keys are mapped as follows: > > > > * > > > > * Mac | Win32 > > > > * -------------------- > > > > * Shift -> Shift > > > > * Ctrl -> Ctrl > > > > * Command -> Left ALT > > > > * Option -> Right ALT > > > > > > > > (but actually, the right ALT key does not generate any keystrokes (only > > > > key down/up) and it is treated as ctrl+alt (windows right Alt key is > > > > "Alt Gr”) > > > > > > Hmm. I think we have to rethink this one because we need two layers of > > > keys: > > > 1. first we should have the raw ones, and > > > > > > what are the "raw" ones? The events the OS generates or the events the VM > > > send out to the image? > > > > > > 2. another layer that offers a more logical keys (like meta). > > > > > > Can you explain this a bit more. > > > > > > > > > What do you think? > > > > > > > > > > 2. defining the > > > > bindings for Spotter can indeed be made to override the ones in the > > > > text editor if needed. But, I think we can start thinking about using > > > > #alt. > > > > > > > > using alt+right on windows/linux and > > > > command + right on mac > > > > for dive-in or for text navigation? > > > > > > > > Is there a default keycombination for word-moving in text components > > > > for mac ? > > > > > > On Mac, typically Alt+Right/Left moves between words. > > > > > > So, we would need a logical modifier that would mean: > > > - Mac: Alt > > > - Win: Ctrl > > > - Linux: Ctrl > > > > > > I though this is what Guillermo already did, but with "command" > > > > > > - Mac: Command > > > - Win/Linux: Ctrl > > > > > > Why did we choose Command and not Alt in the first place, why is Alt now > > > better? > > > > > > > > > > > > What do you think? > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Doru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does this make sense? > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > Doru > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 17, 2016, at 12:12 AM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaih...@gmail.com> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2016-06-16 22:45 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <tu...@tudorgirba.com>: > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > I think we are mixing the topics a bit. The #meta discussion is not > > > > > specific to Spotter actions. > > > > > > > > > > On windows, it is. Because on windows #meta is mapped to #ctrl, and > > > > > you can use ctrl+left/right for moving by "words". This works in a > > > > > browser, an editor, pharos text components but *not* in spotter > > > > > because spotter redefines this keystrokes for dive in /out. > > > > > Currently, both ctrl+left/right and alt+left/right (and shift for > > > > > selection) are working in rubric for moving by "word". But only > > > > > because the (old) shortcut (cmd/shiftcmd) action dispatcher > > > > > explicitly allows both. If we want to remove this and use the > > > > > KMDispatcher framework only, we *need* to define only one mapping, > > > > > otherwise you won't be able to use dive in/out in spotter. > > > > > (Or you could modify spotter to register(overwrite) the mapping on > > > > > the textfield instead of the spotter morph). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The idea was to offer a uniform support of keybindings in Pharo, in > > > > > general. > > > > > > > > > > exactly, and using ctrl+left/right uniformly in editor and external > > > > > tools would be great. > > > > > > > > > > Then Guille etal added #meta to have a predictable mapping. > > > > > > > > > > Yes, and to make this work, we have to remove the old keymapping > > > > > implementation (cmd/shiftcmd action map) and use the KMDispatcher > > > > > registration. But I can only continue with this > > > > > if we have a decision what to use, (windows/linux: either ctrl+arrow > > > > > or alt+arrow, mac: whatever is used on a mac for text navigation) > > > > > > > > > > All #cmd places were changed to #meta, and since then we should not > > > > > use explicitly #cmd anymore, except when we know we are on Mac. For a > > > > > portable modifier, we should only use #meta. > > > > > > > > > > At this point, both Rubric and Spotter use #meta. #meta maps on: > > > > > - Mac: Command > > > > > - Win: Control > > > > > - Linus: Control > > > > > > > > > > This means that #alt is now a portable modifier that will not > > > > > conflict with #meta, so we can now think of using that one in > > > > > combination with #meta. > > > > > > > > > > You can not use #alt modifier on windows. A shortcut definition like > > > > > $g alt > > > > > is never recognized. You have to define it > > > > > $g command > > > > > to make it work with as "alt+g"-keycombination (on windows). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For text navigation, the situation is a bit complicated. On > > > > > Win/Linux, Ctrl+Right/Left moves the cursor between words. On Mac, > > > > > Cmd+Right/Left moves the cursor at the end/beginning of line. So, > > > > > using #meta for text navigation between words is not entirely > > > > > accurate. We should use #ctrl instead. > > > > > > > > > > This would anyway mean that it would be an option to use #alt for > > > > > Spotter now. But, if we are at it, would anyone be interested in > > > > > working on revisiting the overall keybindings in Pharo? > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > Doru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 16, 2016, at 10:22 AM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaih...@gmail.com> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2016-06-07 16:12 GMT+02:00 Andrei Chis <chisvasileand...@gmail.com>: > > > > > > We can, but I remember there were some discussions and it was > > > > > > decided to use meta everywhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Andrei > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If we don't change this, I'll use cmd+left cmd+right in rubric, but > > > > > > this is bad, because all other navigate/select+navigate shortcuts > > > > > > would use meta as shortcut modifier. > > > > > > > > > > > > What are the arguments for using meta for dive-in/out shortcuts ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 3:49 PM, Nicolai Hess > > > > > > <nicolaih...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2016-06-07 15:08 GMT+02:00 Andrei Chis <chisvasileand...@gmail.com>: > > > > > > During Pharo 5 most shortcuts from tools were changed to use "meta" > > > > > > instead of cmd. > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Andrei > > > > > > > > > > > > Can we change this for spotter ? cmd instead of meta > > > > > > > > > > > > ctrl left/right is often used for text components to move to > > > > > > next/previous word. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 2:18 PM, Nicolai Hess > > > > > > <nicolaih...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2016-06-07 13:57 GMT+02:00 Nicolai Hess <nicolaih...@gmail.com>: > > > > > > > > > > > > Am 07.06.2016 1:56 nachm. schrieb "Henrik Nergaard" > > > > > > <henrik.nerga...@uia.no>: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IIRC the shortcut is not changed, it still is meta+right(+shift). > > > > > > > Only the tooltip was changed to display the system specific key > > > > > > > instead of “cmd” so for Windows/Linux this would be “ctrl”. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, it changed > > > > > > > > > > > > In #40624, for example, it was cmd (alt-key on windows ) > > > > > > right/shift right > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Henrik > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Pharo-dev [mailto:pharo-dev-boun...@lists.pharo.org] On > > > > > > > Behalf Of Nicolai Hess > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 7, 2016 12:56 PM > > > > > > > To: Pharo Development List <pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org> > > > > > > > Subject: [Pharo-dev] GT-Spotter dive in shortcut > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why did the shortcut for dive-in element/category changed from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cmd+right > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cmd+shift+right > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ctrl+right > > > > > > > ctrl+shift+right > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know there were some discussions about this and that the > > > > > > > behavior changed some > > > > > > > > > > > > > > time ago, but I don't know the rational behind this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nicolai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > www.tudorgirba.com > > > > > www.feenk.com > > > > > > > > > > "If you interrupt the barber while he is cutting your hair, > > > > > you will end up with a messy haircut." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > www.tudorgirba.com > > > > www.feenk.com > > > > > > > > "Quality cannot be an afterthought." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > www.tudorgirba.com > > > www.feenk.com > > > > > > "Being happy is a matter of choice." > > > > -- > > www.tudorgirba.com > > www.feenk.com > > > > "Every thing has its own flow." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > www.feenk.com > > "Don't give to get. Just give." -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "What is more important: To be happy, or to make happy?"
