Yeah, I agree, what I say or do outside the Pharo channels is completely my business. this 'code' has no place here. Hell, Richard Stallman got deprived out of his LIFE'S WORK over a technical definition of what constitutes statutory rape, which is silly.
Please remove this nonsense out of the pharo community, it has no place here. On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 9:45 PM James Foster <smallt...@jgfoster.net> wrote: > First, my guess is that it was part of the thing they copied and that > aspect might not have gotten as much thought as you’ve given it. > > Second, this is an international organization and maybe the intent (by the > original author(s)) was to extend the reach of the NZ/UK/EU-style laws to > apply to those in jurisdictions with less strict speech codes or where the > legal remedy is impractical. That is, maybe the author(s) don’t feel it is > sufficient to tell someone who is harassed, “We can’t do anything about it. > Hire a NZ lawyer.” > > These are speculations on my part and, as a US citizen, I’m partial to our > free speech protections. I’d prefer to have private organizations practice > ostracization rather than have the government put rude people in jail. I > say this, not to start a political discussion, but to point out that some > harassment that would be illegal in NZ might not have a legal remedy if the > actor was a US citizen. > > In any case, I found that when I submitted a PR then something happened > pretty quickly. So, I’d suggest that you channel your analysis and concerns > into a proposed improvement. > > James > > On Sep 19, 2019, at 8:44 PM, Richard O'Keefe <rao...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On the whole, the new code is pretty good. > > There was one thing that troubled me, though: > "even outside of Pharo's public communication channels." > What business is it of the Pharo Board what anyone says in any > other community? I've heard too many cases where A says something > to B and C complains about it as harassment when B didn't mind. > I have personally known people *affectionately* address each other > in terms that most would consider a deadly insult. > > My behaviour in all digital media is subject to the > Harmful Digital Communications Act 2015. See > http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2015/0063/latest/whole.html > which extends the Harassment Act 1997. See > http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1997/0092/latest/whole.html > for a definition of harassment. > If I harass anyone according to these Acts, they have a legal remedy. > I understand the the UK and the EU have similar laws. > > So I don't understand why the Pharo Board want to extend their reach. > > > On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 07:21, Esteban Lorenzano <esteba...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> I’m talking on behalf of the Pharo Board here. >> As start, we accepted Serge’s proposition without actually discussing it >> much because we didn’t think it was going to be really a problem. Our >> community has been self-regulating since the beginning and we were doing it >> fine until now. Once or twice we (the board) needed to act, but never had a >> real situation as the ones the CoC tries to cover. >> So, we can say we opened the umbrella without rain, just in case. >> >> Now, after observe the situation, we have decided to retract the code. >> But sadly, we cannot just remove it and let things continue as before >> because as it’s know “it you open a can or worms, you will need a bigger >> can to put them back in”. Which means now we need a code of conduct. >> >> So we are going to take the simplest one we could find that still can >> serve our community, you can see it here: >> >> https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/4660 >> >> This PR will be accepted, but as anything in our community, you can still >> discuss it and propose modifications. >> Just remember be respectful of people disagreeing with your ideas :) >> >> Cheers, >> Esteban >> >> PS: As personal note: I blocked a github user that insulted a member of >> our community, a user who did not had history with us (or any other visible >> project), who did not had a name or ways to contact him so I assumed it was >> just another troll. Now, he identifies himself here... I will unblock him, >> but that does not means the kind of disrespectful messages he sent can be >> sent :) >> >> >> On 19 Sep 2019, at 19:47, Ben Coman <b...@openinworld.com> wrote: >> >> makes me wonder whether he's such a machiavellian sociopath, or a useful >> idiot. >> >> On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 at 23:07, Eugen Leitl via Pharo-users < >> pharo-users@lists.pharo.org> wrote: >> >>> Let's see, I've posted one email to this list describing the dangers >>> of abusing CoCs >> >> >> I guess you refer to this one... >> > On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 at 19:39, Eugen Leitl via Pharo-users < >> pharo-users@lists.pharo.org> wrote: >> > I agree. Technical people are too easy to exploit by malignant >> manipulators of people. >> > All too often they don't even realize it after the fact. >> >> Thats fairly benign and doubt it had anything to do with being blocked on >> github. >> >> >> >>> and one post to GitHub describing the motivations of >>> people who introduce CoCs, and immediately get banned on GitHub from >>> >> >> Note, the board member who blocked your GIthub account and deleted your >> post there >> also voiced their opinion as being... >> For me a "welcome and be nice" should be enough to just continue as >> before. >> I find the introduction of CoC was a noise we didn't need, >> our community was doing well and self-regulated without problem until >> now. >> >> So in spite of your implication, I doubt there is anything sinister from >> the CoC in play here. >> Comments such as "makes me wonder whether he's such a machiavellian >> sociopath, or a useful idiot." >> have been consistently condemned years before thought of a CoC. >> >> >> >>> I'm getting called a troll and a nobody in public by members of the >>> project, >> >> >> Its not that you are a "nobody", but actually you were "unknown to us" >> two days ago. >> Maybe you don't know Serge, but we've know him for years and his good >> work including governance of our GSoC participation >> so please consider why such comments from a newcomer may be dealt with as >> a troll. >> Community standards do not maintain themselves: They're maintained by >> people actively applying them, visibly, in public. >> >> Now personally I'm not going to condemn you on one slip. >> I've been told to pull my head in before and they were right - I was >> venting after a bad day at work. But no one held it against me long. >> These nontechnical and emotion-charge debates are infrequent and I hope >> get a chance to see how things normally run once we are past it. >> >> cheers -ben >> >> >> >
