> On 2 Aug 2020, at 19:51, tbrunz <wild.id...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>>> I've been thinking lately that it would be nice to expand the number of
>>> Pharo tutorials we have available.  But rather than (or along with)
>>> creating
>>> more "beginner" level tutorials, I'd like to see some good "intermediate"
>>> level Pharo tutorials.
>> 
>> Me too :)
> 
> Let's do it, then.  I'll volunteer to do most of the work.  :^)

I will review anything you write :)
> 
> My hope is that participating in this will make me capable of creating
> advanced tutorials all by myself.

I usually like to write to learn and dump what I learned.
> 
>>> I think that programmers who already know the Pharo
>>> syntax and messaging semantics could benefit from more advanced tutorials
>>> that demonstrate how to develop "real world" Pharo code for "real world"
>>> processing needs.
>> 
>> Yes yes I would love that.
> 
> That was part of my motivation for creating a Pharo app to solve the Zebra
> Puzzle.  First, of course, I wanted to solve it.  ;^)

I will send you some feeedback and PR.
> 
>>> What I'm talking about is something that assumes you know the language,
>>> the
>>> basics of the IDE (but not necessarily how to leverage its capabilities
>>> to
>>> aid development), and the basics of the foundation classes (but not its
>>> details).  I'd like a tutorial for intermediate Pharo programmers who
>>> want
>>> to become experts with Pharo.  Something that can show you how to apply
>>> the
>>> tools of the IDE and the features of the language and base classes to
>>> create
>>> solutions that solve complex problems.
>> 
>> do you have ideas?
> 
> I do!
> 
> As I started building the Logic Puzzle app, it occurred to me that I could
> probably find several different, common structures in OOP (specifically,
> Pharo) to add to the solution.  And then each would be its own example of
> "what real Pharo code looks like".  I.e., be good examples.
> 
> But first, I needed to explore "how to do it in Pharo" for myself, which
> naturally would have me working the IDE strongly.
> 
> Then I thought, the entire application can/should be an example, so it
> should be a tutorial.
> 
> That means that I need more than just a completed application (that's "just
> an example").  To be a *tutorial*, it means starting from scratch, showing
> how to approach the solution, how to start a Pharo app, how to use the IDE,
> how to write tests, how to refactor code, etc.
> 
> Then I thought, this needs a GUI.  Either a Spec2 UI or a web app UI (with
> Seaside or Teapot).  But I would need help with that!  So I'll start by
> creating a message-based solution, and maybe get help to add a UI later.
> 
> I did some prototyping, then got what I think might be a good code structure
> (by version 4; it took a while to "think pure OOP"; old habits are hard to
> fight against).  It runs, it works.
> 
> But.. Is it "good Pharo code"?  I'm not experienced enough to answer that
> question.  I need a code review, criticism, guidance.  Point me in the right
> direction and I'll keep working on it, and start thinking about how to
> express the "meta" elements (how to use the IDE to make/test the code,
> etc.).
> 
>>> What does the community think of this idea?
>> 
>> I love it. I did Pharo by example so that I can get of rid of the beginner
> parts.
>> After I did learning OOP and Pharo with style so that I do not have to talk
> about it
>> again.
>> 
>> So definitively.
> 
> Okay, great.  I'll do most of the work.  But I need help...
> 
> I don't want to go any further without someone much more experienced than I
> am to review what I have and let me know what I'm doing right & what I'm
> doing "no quite so right".  Yes, it runs, it works -- but that's *not* good
> enough.  The goal here isn't to "hack out a solution and move on", the goal
> is to "create an example and tutorial that's high enough quality to use to
> teach Pharo to other people".  I don't want to be teaching *my* bad habits!
> 
> Also, I know next to nothing about Spec2 or Seaside/Teapot.  I just know
> that I need to learn it, and I need to use it to give my tutorial a UI (or
> two).  Newcomers will show up wanting to learn Pharo, and they need to be
> reassured that they can create nice (enough) UIs without a huge effort. 
> (Not everyone is a command line hacker, and end-users certainly don't want
> to be.)
> 
> The more I learn (from you), the more I can be independent, and the more
> tutorials I could produce -- without a lot of help.  I'm willing to do the
> work, because that will help make me a Pharo "master programmer".  (I don't
> want to be a hack, and I can't really be a trainer if I'm just a hack
> myself.)  
> 
> I'll pay back the community by helping to attract and advance more
> developers' skills.  I just have to have the more advanced knowledge &
> skills myself.  So, train the (future) trainer, anyone??
> 
> -Ted
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
> 

--------------------------------------------
Stéphane Ducasse
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