--- "Stig S. Bakken" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> You have of course hit a very weak spot for PHP here.
> 
> I agree that it would be great if PHP bundled a bytecode compiler,
> cache, optimizer etc.  But the fact is that Zend, who has
> contributed no
> small part of PHP, depend on selling these as commercial products. 
> So
> if PHP bundles APC and similar extensions, that could put Zend out
> of
> business, and Zend would of course resist it.  Everyone understands
> that.
> 
> Just to make sure you understand (I assume you do, but anyway) the
> path
> you're heading down with this message:
> 
> A deep conflict between Zend and parts or all of the PHP community
> will
> not lead to anything productive.  It will be ugly, it will hurt
> PHP's
> public image, and it will make contributors leave.  You, as one who
> speaks fondly about good marketing, should know better than to
> start
> this.
> 
> The Zend/PHP relation _is_ tricky, and I don't claim to have a
> simple
> solution for the situation.  One can argue a lot back and forth
> about
> whether Zend has PHP "locked in" and so on, but the fact is that
> there
> is a delicate symbiosis between Zend and PHP, and IMHO it would be
> very
> dangerous to start ripping that apart.

I cannot agree with that.  Zend appears to be a solid company with a
very good vision of the future for PHP.  As a business they know that
they will eventually have competition from other vendors and open
source projects.  That is why they are writing other software in
addition to the Zend Encoder.  It is never a good reason not work on
a project just to protect a company.  It is the company's
responsibility to protect itself.  The Zend people will not stop
working with the PHP community just because of an alternative PHP
encoding tool.  They will just improve their existing encoding tool
and adjust their pricing scheme just as any other company would.

Given that I believe that Manuel should continue his effort to drive
this effort for an alternative encoding tool without feeling guilty
about doing so.  Manuel as well as all of those working for the Zend
company are just trying to make a living and improve PHP at the same
time.  

Brent

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