On Mon, 25 Nov 2002 20:14:56 -0500 "Ilia A." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On November 25, 2002 07:57 pm, Maxim Maletsky wrote:
> > On Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:21:06 -0500 Sterling Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > > Educate users to speak the base amount of english required, I18N'ing the
> > > language is just going to lead to headaches from a user perspective
> > > (incorrect translations, slower performance, translations for english
> > > speakers) and a developer perspective (having to lookup tokens,
> > > understanding another language, getting bug reports with horrible error
> > > messages).
> >
> > That is why we have error codes :)
> >
> > Are you saying that Oracle is wrong giving the ability to localize even
> > SQL error messages? These does not have to ever happen, but in my
> > Italian team the guys are simply rocking - they find out instantly what
> > they did wrong to a query because it is in their language.
>
> Oracle is by far the most bloated piece of software in existence, adopting
> ideas from it is hardly a good idea. It is so complex, that perhaps
> localization was the only way they could make it usable for international
> users.
Complex because does a lot - it is, in a way, an Operating Sytems on its
own.. But, as you can say yourself - localization of errors does help.
> >
> > Sets the language to what you speak and you will develop faster wherever
> > you're coming from.
> >
>
> And the next logical step from that would be to develop in the language you
> speak and this is how you get PHP code that makes Perl look good. Right now
> code written by French developer can be understood by a Chinese developer,
> with the eventual evolution of your suggestion understanding code would
> require the knowledge of the language the author decided to use in addition
> to PHP.
???? Hello?/?? we're talking about errors here, not page content.
Hopefuly that does not become the same :)
When you get an error while developing, seeing it in your own language,
whichever it is - English, Chinese, Russian or Japanese - it will be the
language you will set it to and thus the best for you, developer. What's
so wrong with that?
> > As of bug reports - as long as every error has its own error code
> > everyone in the world can find out what the error means. How different
> > is that from simply translating the documentation?
>
> Bugs imply a problem with either PHP itself or in some cases an application
> written in PHP. In those cases the person resolving the bug will be the
> original developer who if he cannot understand the problem will pipe it to
> /dev/null. I don't know how you evaluate your time, but most people just
> don't have the time to look up error code XYZ in the big error-code codebook.
php_error(225);
whereas 255 is defined some string in many languages appering like this:
Warning (255): Undefined Variable.
One writes in bugs.php.net:
Non dovrei ricevere questo errore:
Attenzione (225): Variabile non predefinita.
in questo codice:
if($var) {
}
perche?
And you, without speaking italian, will be just as helpful to him.
> Realistically, I think that even if you did introduce i18n in error message
> most would still remain in English with maybe 20-30% of messages being
> translated in popular locales like German and French and even lower in less
> common locales. With such low translation level you are only going to
> introduce confusion, which is the exact opposite of what you are trying to
> do.
I don't think so. There are much less error strings than manual pages -
these got tranlsated well, and so will error string.
Just think how cool it is to be able to speak one language and still
find a programming langguage easy to understnad! A great marketing tool!
--
Maxim Maletsky
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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