Here goes: > When people talk to me about the FIG recently, and even not so recently, it's usually to talk about drama and Paul.
People talk about drama because they like talking about it, and it is way more entertaining. Sans the drama a lot of people wouldn't have much to say about the FIG anyway. > People have left this organization because of this (Chris Pitt comes to mind, but I believe there have been others). Well, that was their choice. If you come to a party and see somebody you don't like (idk a former ex) and you leave that party, that is your choice alone. It should not be a reason to ban that person from attending that party the next time. > The PHP community as a whole watches what we do and what we say and because of our inability to communicate with each other and actually get things done we're losing effectiveness and respect. By that logic, please, lets also ban all the other people who argue a lot on FIG. Having a heated conversation is normal. *Also, riddle me this:* You want to expel Paul because he is arguing a lot, etc. How will this be fixed by him not having a vote? Everything he says, he can also say without being a voting member, so there is no win for you either way. Unless of course your end goal is to actually ban him from the mailing list altogether? And that is a whole new level of stupid tbh. On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 6:32 PM, Adam Culp <thegeeky...@gmail.com> wrote: > OK, this is going too far. This is wrong. But I will weigh in because > silence creates the perception of approval, and I do not approve. > > I would add the following to the discussion: > > 1. Paul is passionate about the FIG. On a technical level he has added > a great deal, and continues to do so. > 2. Paul is very active, and responds quickly and concisely. He is not > afraid to dive in when emotions are high, or his view is controversial. > This can inflame others that are passionate about a given topic. Comments > made by Paul can "feel" confrontational when things are passionate. But > upon reading many of Paul's comments, at a later time when emotions have > subsided, they are not confrontational as originally perceived. > 3. Paul has been known to include politics and other topics in > comments, generally instigated by others. > 4. There are bound to be personality conflicts in any group. Paul and > some others in, and out of, the FIG have personality conflicts due to > political concerns and otherwise. This is not cause for expulsion. > 5. Paul has political views that some disagree with, and freely shares > them outside of the group. This is not cause for expulsion. > 6. We should be focused on what happens inside this group, and not be > overly influenced by buzz from the general public. This is our decision. > 7. The fact that others have chosen to leave the FIG when small > conflicts arose is more of a reflection on them, not Paul. > > We are adults discussing passionate things, and there will be conflict. > Expulsion should not be the answer, otherwise the FIG will become a group > of muppets and like-minded people agreeing on everything which would carry > no value. > > When the vote starts I urge folks to not simply join the pitchfork mob, > but weigh the accusations and evidence from a non-emotional point of view. > > Thank you for reading. > > I will self-throttle now and not post on this thread unless addressed > personally. > > -- Adam Culp > > > On Thursday, June 23, 2016 at 3:53:03 PM UTC-4, Michael Cullum wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> Over the past 8 weeks, we [the secretaries] have had a number of voting >> members, former project representatives and well known community members >> alike approach us regarding a situation they believe is being detrimental >> to the continued success of the FIG and the harmony in the group. It is, >> essentially, the impact of Paul M Jones on the harmony of the mailing list >> and the impact his contribution is having on making this group welcoming or >> pleasant to be involved with. >> >> To avoid putting words in mouths but still convey the common grievances, >> we’ll quote from those who have complained: >> >> - >> >> “This individual is toxic to the group and is therefore directly >> affecting the ability of the group to perform its aims” >> - >> >> “I believe this individual is the sole biggest cause of loss of >> respect and members for the FIG” >> - >> >> “I stepped down as a voting representative due to this member” >> - >> >> “The presence of this individual makes me not want to contribute or >> get involved with to the PHP FIG” >> - >> >> “My main problem with him is that every time I opened a threads >> lately to read up, he's getting into some tantrum with other over small >> meaningless things. Sometimes he might even be right but honestly I don't >> even care whether he is right or wrong. They is just plainly disrupting >> the >> FIG at this stage. He used to be annoying, but I was fine with that, this >> is just disruptive though.” >> >> >> The following complainants said they are happy to be named (Nobody asked >> not to be named, but some we never asked if they were happy to be named): >> >> - >> >> Ross Tuck - Community figure >> - >> >> Larry Garfield - Drupal project representative >> - >> >> Graham Daniels - PHP League project representative >> - >> >> Fabien Potencier - Symfony project representative >> - >> >> Mike van Riel - PHPDoc project representative >> - >> >> Jordi Boggiano - Composer project representative >> - >> >> Anthony Ferrara - Community figure >> - >> >> Phil Sturgeon - Former project representative and community figure >> - >> >> Christopher Pitt - Former project representative and community figure >> - >> >> Rafael Dohms - Community figure >> - >> >> Marc Alexander - phpBB project representative >> - >> >> Cees-Jan Kiewiet - ReactPHP project representative >> >> >> In total the number of complaints about this individual totals about 20 >> however there have also been other concerns aired about this individual >> publicly and a number of individuals who contacted us said they in turn had >> heard complaints about Paul from others; as a result of this, and being >> explicitly asked what we can do/to do something about this situation, >> including requests of this specific course of action we are starting this >> discussion on PMJ’s membership. It is not the role of the secretaries to >> handle this kind of thing or pass judgement on member projects so we are >> posting this topic to invite discussion from both sides of the table out in >> the open. >> >> We believe having this discussion going on for too long will not be >> conducive to the FIG so a vote [to request a new representative from Aura, >> which will result in Aura’s expulsion unless a new representative is >> provided] will then commence unless a conclusion has been reached agreeable >> by all sides before that point. That vote should then put an end to the >> current situation. >> >> To clarify further, this topic does not indicate the opinion of >> secretaries that this project representative should be expelled, but that >> we have been asked by a significant number of voting members and community >> members to do something about it so we are moving those complaints into >> public for discussion by voting members as we can do nothing but move the >> discussion and complaints to the mailing list for the attention of voting >> members. >> >> I know this is a difficult discussion to avoid making personal, but >> please try and keep it civil and respect self-throttling. People have >> requested we ensure we always have two week discussion periods before >> voting on matters which means that we will not lock this topic unless we >> have no other option open to us but will be issuing temporary mailing list >> bans on anyone not respecting rules about civility or self throttling; more >> than 3 responses in a 24 hour period will result in a 24 hour temporary >> ban, as will repeatedly making posts that cross boundaries into flaming. If >> rules are broken multiple times, we will increase the time period of bans. >> >> Many thanks, >> >> The Secretaries >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the > Google Groups "PHP Framework Interoperability Group" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/php-fig/w38tCU4mdgU/unsubscribe. > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > php-fig+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to php-fig@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/php-fig/f8af18ce-59a1-4b33-9adc-6075cdd5dd57%40googlegroups.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/php-fig/f8af18ce-59a1-4b33-9adc-6075cdd5dd57%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "PHP Framework Interoperability Group" group. 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