I think it is safe to say that we pole-vaulted past silliness a long time ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oc1zGRUPztc
On Thu, Jul 22, 2021 at 4:10 PM Russell Senior <[email protected]> wrote: > For me, abandoning blacklist/whitelist has more to do with the murky > origin of the expression, and what I assume might be uncertainty in > the receiver of the connotation of the expression. According to the > OED, it was used in 1624: > > 1624 Bp. J. Hall True Peace-maker 42 "Ye secret oppressors,..ye > kind drunkards, and who euer come within this blacke list of > wickednesse." > > That links to "black" 13a: > > "Designating something which indicates disgrace, undesirability, > failure, liability to punishment, etc. (often involving or consisting > in a black symbol)." > > usage dating from circa 1550: > > ?1550 J. Bale Apol. agaynste Papyst f. cxvi "He feared the blacke > blotte of treason for maynteynynge monkery, whych hys prince had > condempned afore." > > Without trying to research further, I presume this comes from the > general association of black with darkness (in the sense of hard to > see) and evil (things that lurk unseen). > > However, when I am talking to people I don't know well and who might > not understand the innocent way I intend to use the expression, I do > NOT want them to make the wrong association. A naive person might hear > blacklist and whitelist and make an association with racial > preferences, particularly when I am suggesting how to get their device > put on one list or another. There is no question that within my > lifetime racial discrimination was openly explicit and harsh, and we > are still living with the echos of that long legacy. > > That said, there is a slippery slope. For example, I've seen people > suggest that "native" should be avoided, and I don't get that. I am > unaware that "native" is generally understood in a pejorative way. > Even master/slave, which has obvious association with an evil > social/economic/political system, as it is used to describe roles of > devices on a bus (like SPI), is not (to me) obviously offensive. The > master device is commanding the slave device to do something. The > slave device is expected to do what is asked. This seems simply > descriptive. I don't understand how someone would think that it was an > expression of discrimination or supremacy among people. There is some > danger that word policing will drift into silliness. > > On Thu, Jul 22, 2021 at 2:28 PM <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > The etymology of the terms white and black list have absolutely nothing > > to do with today's hyperracialized politics. > > > > James > > > > On 2021-07-22 16:55, Keith Lofstrom wrote: > > > This might be a "plug-talk" subject, but it will affect > > > how we write and use and archive Linux code, so it belongs > > > on this list, practically speaking. > > > > > > I've used the terms "black-list" and "white-list" for half > > > a century. I just realized those terms are ideologically > > > incorrect, and will derail a discussion, sooner or later. > > > > > > A little googling revealed alternatives. > > > > > > An obvious (and technically more accurate) replacement for > > > "black-list" is "BLOCK-list". A bit of work to relearn, > > > but trivial to implement technically. When I forget and > > > mistakenly say "black", I can pretend you misheard me :-) > > > > > > "WHITE-list" is harder, many more variants in play. > > > "Allow-list" is one alternative (same number of letters); > > > "Pass-list" is faster to say (same number of syllables). > > > > > > Maybe "Pass--list" is optimum, since cut-and-paste changes > > > checksums but not line and file lengths. > > > > > > I bring this up now, and here, because I would like to > > > resolve this and practice making the change before some > > > politically-correct pecksniff derails a technical > > > discussion. Virtue signalling has its place (plug-talk), > > > but I hope we can make this transition together, without > > > rancor, maintaining focus on technical virtuosity instead. > > > > > > Let's discuss this /technically/ here, /virtuously/ on > > > plug-talk. When we decide what to do, TOGETHER, how do we > > > propagate it through millions of lines of code written by > > > thousands over decades? > > > > > > Keith > > > > > > P.S. Genetically, I am "very-dilute-black". Many people > > > with southern-US ancestors are. Some west-African genes > > > protect against malaria, endemic in the antebellum south. > > > Linux systems were used to discover this. References > > > available off-list; discuss on plug-talk. > > > > > > -- > > > Keith Lofstrom [email protected] > > > > -- > > James Bertelson > > [email protected] > > :wq >
