It seems like this is a naive attempt to solve a real problem. From a solution oriented perspective I don't see the value in blacklisting blacklist since the word simply represents an action.
Words have little relevance to the existence of racism. It would be more effective to confront the ways black people are excluded in order to truly solve the problem. As an example, there are ways to blacklist black people without mentioning skin color. In the housing industry 'redlining' has long been used as a way to devalue non-white communities without even mentioning race. From a technical perspective I firmly oppose changing these terms because it will not result in the desired effect. -Ben Sent from ProtonMail mobile -------- Original Message -------- On Jul 22, 2021, 4:27 PM, Jason Barnett wrote: > I think it is safe to say that we pole-vaulted past silliness a long time > ago: > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oc1zGRUPztc > > On Thu, Jul 22, 2021 at 4:10 PM Russell Senior <russ...@personaltelco.net> > wrote: > >> For me, abandoning blacklist/whitelist has more to do with the murky >> origin of the expression, and what I assume might be uncertainty in >> the receiver of the connotation of the expression. According to the >> OED, it was used in 1624: >> >> 1624 Bp. J. Hall True Peace-maker 42 "Ye secret oppressors,..ye >> kind drunkards, and who euer come within this blacke list of >> wickednesse." >> >> That links to "black" 13a: >> >> "Designating something which indicates disgrace, undesirability, >> failure, liability to punishment, etc. (often involving or consisting >> in a black symbol)." >> >> usage dating from circa 1550: >> >> ?1550 J. Bale Apol. agaynste Papyst f. cxvi "He feared the blacke >> blotte of treason for maynteynynge monkery, whych hys prince had >> condempned afore." >> >> Without trying to research further, I presume this comes from the >> general association of black with darkness (in the sense of hard to >> see) and evil (things that lurk unseen). >> >> However, when I am talking to people I don't know well and who might >> not understand the innocent way I intend to use the expression, I do >> NOT want them to make the wrong association. A naive person might hear >> blacklist and whitelist and make an association with racial >> preferences, particularly when I am suggesting how to get their device >> put on one list or another. There is no question that within my >> lifetime racial discrimination was openly explicit and harsh, and we >> are still living with the echos of that long legacy. >> >> That said, there is a slippery slope. For example, I've seen people >> suggest that "native" should be avoided, and I don't get that. I am >> unaware that "native" is generally understood in a pejorative way. >> Even master/slave, which has obvious association with an evil >> social/economic/political system, as it is used to describe roles of >> devices on a bus (like SPI), is not (to me) obviously offensive. The >> master device is commanding the slave device to do something. The >> slave device is expected to do what is asked. This seems simply >> descriptive. I don't understand how someone would think that it was an >> expression of discrimination or supremacy among people. There is some >> danger that word policing will drift into silliness. >> >> On Thu, Jul 22, 2021 at 2:28 PM <ja...@bertelson.me> wrote: >> > >> > The etymology of the terms white and black list have absolutely nothing >> > to do with today's hyperracialized politics. >> > >> > James >> > >> > On 2021-07-22 16:55, Keith Lofstrom wrote: >> > > This might be a "plug-talk" subject, but it will affect >> > > how we write and use and archive Linux code, so it belongs >> > > on this list, practically speaking. >> > > >> > > I've used the terms "black-list" and "white-list" for half >> > > a century. I just realized those terms are ideologically >> > > incorrect, and will derail a discussion, sooner or later. >> > > >> > > A little googling revealed alternatives. >> > > >> > > An obvious (and technically more accurate) replacement for >> > > "black-list" is "BLOCK-list". A bit of work to relearn, >> > > but trivial to implement technically. When I forget and >> > > mistakenly say "black", I can pretend you misheard me :-) >> > > >> > > "WHITE-list" is harder, many more variants in play. >> > > "Allow-list" is one alternative (same number of letters); >> > > "Pass-list" is faster to say (same number of syllables). >> > > >> > > Maybe "Pass--list" is optimum, since cut-and-paste changes >> > > checksums but not line and file lengths. >> > > >> > > I bring this up now, and here, because I would like to >> > > resolve this and practice making the change before some >> > > politically-correct pecksniff derails a technical >> > > discussion. Virtue signalling has its place (plug-talk), >> > > but I hope we can make this transition together, without >> > > rancor, maintaining focus on technical virtuosity instead. >> > > >> > > Let's discuss this /technically/ here, /virtuously/ on >> > > plug-talk. When we decide what to do, TOGETHER, how do we >> > > propagate it through millions of lines of code written by >> > > thousands over decades? >> > > >> > > Keith >> > > >> > > P.S. Genetically, I am "very-dilute-black". Many people >> > > with southern-US ancestors are. Some west-African genes >> > > protect against malaria, endemic in the antebellum south. >> > > Linux systems were used to discover this. References >> > > available off-list; discuss on plug-talk. >> > > >> > > -- >> > > Keith Lofstrom kei...@keithl.com >> > >> > -- >> > James Bertelson >> > ja...@bertelson.me >> > :wq >>
