PNAC has too much visibility; it's a 'bad guy' put up there to attract
political sharpshooters, thereby 'validating' its significance. Ask yourself:
why does a paper written by bozos and underlings in the WH become national
policy? More than meets the eye, I'd say.
PNAC gets underhanded attention similar to the kind of attention that YouTube
gets from MSM. Have you noticed how MSM evening news has regular stories
related to 'the popular UTube site"? MSM has advertized it with 'news'
repetition; popularized it, a kind-of left-handed popularization. They are
also 'popularizing' homosexuality, sexual lpredation on the Internet (as a
means of control of the power of the medium, some say).
Sean McBride <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
We may soon be facing massive population reduction -- through environmental
catastrophe, Armageddonist wars, malicious genetic engineering or other causes.
My own instinct is that planet Earth cannot survive the stress that humanity
is exerting on it. Or rather: the human race, or much of it, will not be able
to survive the response of planet Earth to our abuse.
So, no doubt, some members of the global power elite are worrying about this
issue. Some of them may even have plans to solve the problem in their own
inimitable way. But I can't imagine China or Russia taking a genocidal attack
on their peoples from Brits, or any other group, lying down. They would
retaliate, and Britain is an easy target.
Also, forget sneaky virus attacks and other schemes -- everyone in the world
community is on to this and is vigilant about it. The PNAC openly endorsed
this kind of warfare -- anyone associated with PNAC would be the first suspects
in a situation of this kind. Prince Charles most assuredly is not running the
PNAC. The neocons *hate* Prince Charles. Some neocons speak openly about
nuking tens or hundreds of millions of Muslims -- committing the greatest act
of genocide in human history, using the Bible as an authority and model. They
may well do it. Israeli threats to exercise the Samson Option extend to the
entire planet -- "the nations."
Albert Underwood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Right; I have nothing other than prince charles is into organic farming
and gwb bought a 100k acre farm in paraguay. The future isn't detectable by
observation. If the world is overburdened with humans, what do you do? If you
have 6b, and you have to reduce to 2b, how do you do that? Again, not to
confuse brit govt with brit crown family ambitions. I pick on them because of
ownership patterns in the oil and defense industries.
Sean McBride <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Theories and speculations can be
interesting, but I don't really start paying attention until I see many
well-documented facts tightly tied up together in an orderly way. You made the
claim that Britain might be planning to annihilate much of the human race.
Since much of the human race can easily annihilate Britain, this doesn't strike
me as a realistic scenario describing the real world.
Albert Underwood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
No; its more of a wholistic interpretaton of events. Pure speculation
based on an integration of information across a number if disciplines and
sources.
The current size of humanity is unsustainable on the planet. Ocean life is
collapsing as a result of the overburden. Deforestation in the north has
contributed to the decline of oxygen in the atmosphere worldwide. People are
aware of these circumstances.
Sean McBride <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Do you have any proof or documentation to support this scenario?
Would China, Russia and other nations be likely to sit still for something
like this without reducing Britain to ash?
Albert Underwood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I still think the issue is much larger than that.
IMHO? The british crown intends to kill off 80%of the human population within
the next 20 years. They see the current human pooulation as unsustainable, and
want to be in control of the drastic action that will follow the collapse of
the food chain -- at least enough to come out the other end of the disaster
with money, power, and control. The new world will be less stressed for
resources, because the largest populations, china, India, Indonesia, Russia,
and the US will be reduced by an order of magnitude.
The Brits are looking far enough ahead to know that there will be another huge
human calamity very soon, and they intend to survive it, control it.
Sean McBride <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
1. Yes, I do believe that John Hagee IS sincere in his Armageddonist beliefs,
as expounded in Jerusalem Countdown. I've seen and heard him speak (on TV and
radio), and the fanaticism and psychosis that animates his personality comes
through as all too authentic. Keep in mind that this zealot was received by
the leading pro-Israel lobbying organization in America with wild enthusiasm!
By any reasonable judgment, this man is a dangerous threat to the United
States and the world at large.
History reveals that large segments of the human race fall prey to psychotic
and delusional enthusiasms on a regular basis. Sometimes these messianic
movements are manipulated by wily leaders; sometimes the leaders of these
movements, like John Hagee, are themselves as mad as hatters.
Think about it: some leading Zionists, fully endorsed by the Israeli
government and the Israel lobby, are now agitating for a preemptive nuclear
strike on Iran with the deliberate intention of instigating Armageddon and the
destruction of the world as we know it! And they have the ear of Bush and
Cheney! I've been trying to warn about this situation for years; now my
concerns are beginning to edge into the mainstream, as the real Zionist agenda
becomes ever more difficult to ignore.
2. Great letter by David Buckley in Salon, but I think he misreads Brzezinski
and Brzezinski's faction. Brzezinski has been opposed to neocon schemes under
Bush 43 from day one. It's amazing how many people fail to get this point,
even when the evidence is all around them.
3. Earlier here I speculated that Zionism could trigger the biggest explosion
of anti-Semitism in world history, occurring all around the world at once, and
with special intensity in the United States. This scenario seems more
plausible to me than ever. If AIPAC and its Christian Zionist allies and dupes
succeed in inflicting massive damage on American interests, the backlash is
going to be something to behold. Most Americans are not going to be able make
subtle distinctions about who is to blame. Let me be clear: this is a
situation that I would very much NOT like to see develop. But it is
developing, rolling down the tracks like a locomotive. A large majority of
Jews are continuing to permit AIPAC and the neocons to set the Jewish agenda in
the United States, despite their misgivings.
LeaNder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I was on to the John Hagee issue months ago in this very group and warned
> about the developing situation. Most conspiracy researchers are not paying
> attention and are still digging around in oil industry issues to try to
> explain the bizarre behavior of the neocon-controlled Bush/Cheney regime.
Yes! My problem is still that I would need to study the separate
religious-politico-economical US right wing characters much more extensively
to keep them apart in separate mental spaces. I noticed though early that the
political sectors of Iran Contra and the religious parts merge at times: e.g.
Oliver North and that the US brings out things in religions that might have
been a much more secret layer before: money, power to move the masses.
>
> Do you appreciate that the official mainstream Israel lobby, including both
> AIPAC and the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish
> Organizations, is now completely in bed with Christian Zionists and Christian
> Armageddonists who are actively seeking, with all their emotion and will, to
> drive the world towards total destruction? What does this state of affairs
> say about the essential character of Zionism as a whole? Hagee was received
> with great enthusiasm at the latest AIPAC gathering. Videos of his speech --
> and of AIPAC's reaction -- are available across the net. Look up a few and
> savor the fragrance of an Armageddonist cult in full rut.
I still have the impression that Hagee et al are simply tricking the masses.
Do you think Hagee really believes in his "Jerusalem Countdown" Vision? As
European agnostic I find this hard to believe. But documentaries on the topic
are getting momentum over here too. So I guess we can say the world watches in
amazement.
>
> This current crop of Armaggedonists, which includes George W. Bush, is armed
> with an immense arsenal of weapons of mass destruction which it feels it is
> entitled (even divinely commanded) to use preemptively.
What puzzles me a bit at the moment is that the people who consider the larger
issue as some kind of new antisemitism often feel arrogantly enamored with the
right of the empire or generally the stronger. (History is used a stone pit
in this respect were apples are compared with pears. That's what puzzles me
most at the moment. And exactly that feels pretty shortsighted and not very
wise.
Reminds me of the following flower power quote:
Jimi Hendrix: When the Power of love overcomes the love of power the world
will know peace
> The American mainstream media continue to cover up what is going on, in the
> hope of getting on with a war against Iran. AIPAC's ties to John Hagee should
> be a huge on-going story at the New York Times, the Washington Post, MSNBC,
> CNN and other big media outlets.
>
David Buckley catches what puzzles me about the larger scenario pretty well. I
am still not sure if this is some kind of post 9/11 carpe diem/seize the moment
enterprise and I doubt we will ever know. Things would look much different
without 911.
AIPAC: Cheerleading the Apocalypse
What�s spooky about these AIPAC types is not that they�re�Jewish�
(that�s too broad a brush for this crowd, and Levey knowsit); it�s that
they have an agenda that dovetails nicely with theso-called �Christian
Zionists� and with the remnants of the PNACCriminals. The nature of that
agenda is best expressed as thedetermination to create what some have called a
�Greater Israel�(a-k-a Eretz Israel) embracing ALL of the (alleged)
territory ofthe ancient and relatively short-lived Kingdom of Israel ofBiblical
times.
Where the borders of such a state might be, is anyone�s guess;but the real
point to note here is that, once we read the situationin this way, Israel is no
longer the beleaguered and besieged�little democracy� which must be
protected against them evil,anti-semitic, �Islamofascist� Arabs trying to
push holcaustsurvivors into the sea. This is STILL, unfortunately, the
popular(mis)conception portrayed by the American media, which in itseagerness
to apppear more pro-Jewish-than-thou has left itself opento all kinds of
idiocies. Most Americans think that Israel is infact �defenceless� against
its more powerful neighbors. In reality,nothing could be further from the
truth. It is in fact a majorconfrontational imperial player in the region. Its
populationreached 6,000,000 around 2000; it has nuclear weapons; it
routinelyspies on the U.S.; and, it uses US support as its most playablecard in
the region and internationally. No other country has arecord of ignoring UN
Resolutions that competes with that ofIsrael. And, the US has routinely acted
like Israel�s puppet invirtually all international arenas, supporting
Israeliintransigence even when this did NOT serve American interests. (Asfor
instance in its current refusal to "recognize" or negotiatewith the
demnocratically-elected representatives of the Palestinianpeople).
Why do the �Christian Zionists� support AIPAC? Because
the�restoration� of Eretz Israel has all kinds of Apocalyptic,End-Times
implications that they embrace. Early Christianity, atroot, as any competent
�secular� historian will tell you, wasinherently Millennial. It believed
that Jesus was the Christ andthat his coming presaged the End of the World.
Contemporary�Christian Zionists� are enraptured by the possibilities
andimplications of the �restored� Biblical Kingdom, becuse it wouldseem to
create the secular conditions necessary for the�restoration� of God�s
Kingdom ... when, presumably, True Believerswill inherit the Earth (or the
whirlwind, depending).
What about the PNAC crew? Their �foreign policy� is not simplydictated by
oil. Their aim is a permanent US military presence inthe �Eurasian
theatre.� Why? Because, future US global hegemony isbelieved to be tied to
geopolitical supremacy in that region.Without �boots on the ground� the US
will likely be frozen out byEurope, Russia, China, or India or any combination
of theseunlikely bedfellows. The biggest threat to US hegemony would be
theemergence of a �regional� player ... like, say, Iran! So: It�s NOTan
accident that US troops are stationed in considerable numbers onIran�s
eastern and western borders. In mid-February, reports in theinternational media
highlighted the fact that US planning for aninvasion of Iran had been
completed. The Iraq surge may eventuallybecome the pretext for cross-border
incursions into Iran and/orSyria. And, a catalyst for a wider war. Nor is it an
accident thatthe American image of Iran goes back ONLY to the �Hostage
Crisis�under Jimmy Carter, and completely ignores the CIA�s role in
thefall of Mossadeq, and the rise and maintenance of the Shah�s brutaland
repressive regime.
My apologies for being so long-winded, but Israel/Palestine isTHE KEY to the
Middle East. And it�s important for Americans (inparticular) to be aware of
the ways in which seemingly disparategroups can become intimate bedfellows in
pursuit of complementaryalbeit kooky goals.
For Salonicans interested in these matters I�d recommend AviShlaim�s
brilliant history of the modern Israeli state, �The IronWall.� And for
proof that the PNAC foreign policy agenda is NOT, atroot, different from say
that of the �liberal� Democrats, seeZbigniew Brzerzinski�s �The Great
Game.� When the dust settles atthe end of this current venture, the US will
have a minimalmilitary presence of 50,000 to 100,000 troops permanently
stationedon the ground in westen/central Asia. THAT�s the real goal.
TheAmerican Republic and its democratic heritage is a hostage to (andthe most
likely casualty of) that imperial vision.
-- David Buckley
I shouldn't be here, but I found my old Reader subscriptions again. But it
needs study, this is nothing to do instinctively without studying further it
seems. So far I could only share the headlines. No idea how to make more text
appear.
-b
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