PNAC has too much visibility; it's a 'bad guy' put up there to attract political sharpshooters, thereby 'validating' its significance. Ask yourself: why does a paper written by bozos and underlings in the WH become national policy? More than meets the eye, I'd say.
PNAC gets underhanded attention similar to the kind of attention that YouTube gets from MSM. Have you noticed how MSM evening news has regular stories related to 'the popular UTube site"? MSM has advertized it with 'news' repetition; popularized it, a kind-of left-handed popularization. They are also 'popularizing' homosexuality, sexual lpredation on the Internet (as a means of control of the power of the medium, some say). Sean McBride <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: We may soon be facing massive population reduction -- through environmental catastrophe, Armageddonist wars, malicious genetic engineering or other causes. My own instinct is that planet Earth cannot survive the stress that humanity is exerting on it. Or rather: the human race, or much of it, will not be able to survive the response of planet Earth to our abuse. So, no doubt, some members of the global power elite are worrying about this issue. Some of them may even have plans to solve the problem in their own inimitable way. But I can't imagine China or Russia taking a genocidal attack on their peoples from Brits, or any other group, lying down. They would retaliate, and Britain is an easy target. Also, forget sneaky virus attacks and other schemes -- everyone in the world community is on to this and is vigilant about it. The PNAC openly endorsed this kind of warfare -- anyone associated with PNAC would be the first suspects in a situation of this kind. Prince Charles most assuredly is not running the PNAC. The neocons *hate* Prince Charles. Some neocons speak openly about nuking tens or hundreds of millions of Muslims -- committing the greatest act of genocide in human history, using the Bible as an authority and model. They may well do it. Israeli threats to exercise the Samson Option extend to the entire planet -- "the nations." Albert Underwood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Right; I have nothing other than prince charles is into organic farming and gwb bought a 100k acre farm in paraguay. The future isn't detectable by observation. If the world is overburdened with humans, what do you do? If you have 6b, and you have to reduce to 2b, how do you do that? Again, not to confuse brit govt with brit crown family ambitions. I pick on them because of ownership patterns in the oil and defense industries. Sean McBride <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Theories and speculations can be interesting, but I don't really start paying attention until I see many well-documented facts tightly tied up together in an orderly way. You made the claim that Britain might be planning to annihilate much of the human race. Since much of the human race can easily annihilate Britain, this doesn't strike me as a realistic scenario describing the real world. Albert Underwood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: No; its more of a wholistic interpretaton of events. Pure speculation based on an integration of information across a number if disciplines and sources. The current size of humanity is unsustainable on the planet. Ocean life is collapsing as a result of the overburden. Deforestation in the north has contributed to the decline of oxygen in the atmosphere worldwide. People are aware of these circumstances. Sean McBride <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Do you have any proof or documentation to support this scenario? Would China, Russia and other nations be likely to sit still for something like this without reducing Britain to ash? Albert Underwood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I still think the issue is much larger than that. IMHO? The british crown intends to kill off 80%of the human population within the next 20 years. They see the current human pooulation as unsustainable, and want to be in control of the drastic action that will follow the collapse of the food chain -- at least enough to come out the other end of the disaster with money, power, and control. The new world will be less stressed for resources, because the largest populations, china, India, Indonesia, Russia, and the US will be reduced by an order of magnitude. The Brits are looking far enough ahead to know that there will be another huge human calamity very soon, and they intend to survive it, control it. Sean McBride <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 1. Yes, I do believe that John Hagee IS sincere in his Armageddonist beliefs, as expounded in Jerusalem Countdown. I've seen and heard him speak (on TV and radio), and the fanaticism and psychosis that animates his personality comes through as all too authentic. Keep in mind that this zealot was received by the leading pro-Israel lobbying organization in America with wild enthusiasm! By any reasonable judgment, this man is a dangerous threat to the United States and the world at large. History reveals that large segments of the human race fall prey to psychotic and delusional enthusiasms on a regular basis. Sometimes these messianic movements are manipulated by wily leaders; sometimes the leaders of these movements, like John Hagee, are themselves as mad as hatters. Think about it: some leading Zionists, fully endorsed by the Israeli government and the Israel lobby, are now agitating for a preemptive nuclear strike on Iran with the deliberate intention of instigating Armageddon and the destruction of the world as we know it! And they have the ear of Bush and Cheney! I've been trying to warn about this situation for years; now my concerns are beginning to edge into the mainstream, as the real Zionist agenda becomes ever more difficult to ignore. 2. Great letter by David Buckley in Salon, but I think he misreads Brzezinski and Brzezinski's faction. Brzezinski has been opposed to neocon schemes under Bush 43 from day one. It's amazing how many people fail to get this point, even when the evidence is all around them. 3. Earlier here I speculated that Zionism could trigger the biggest explosion of anti-Semitism in world history, occurring all around the world at once, and with special intensity in the United States. This scenario seems more plausible to me than ever. If AIPAC and its Christian Zionist allies and dupes succeed in inflicting massive damage on American interests, the backlash is going to be something to behold. Most Americans are not going to be able make subtle distinctions about who is to blame. Let me be clear: this is a situation that I would very much NOT like to see develop. But it is developing, rolling down the tracks like a locomotive. A large majority of Jews are continuing to permit AIPAC and the neocons to set the Jewish agenda in the United States, despite their misgivings. LeaNder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I was on to the John Hagee issue months ago in this very group and warned > about the developing situation. Most conspiracy researchers are not paying > attention and are still digging around in oil industry issues to try to > explain the bizarre behavior of the neocon-controlled Bush/Cheney regime. Yes! My problem is still that I would need to study the separate religious-politico-economical US right wing characters much more extensively to keep them apart in separate mental spaces. I noticed though early that the political sectors of Iran Contra and the religious parts merge at times: e.g. Oliver North and that the US brings out things in religions that might have been a much more secret layer before: money, power to move the masses. > > Do you appreciate that the official mainstream Israel lobby, including both > AIPAC and the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish > Organizations, is now completely in bed with Christian Zionists and Christian > Armageddonists who are actively seeking, with all their emotion and will, to > drive the world towards total destruction? What does this state of affairs > say about the essential character of Zionism as a whole? Hagee was received > with great enthusiasm at the latest AIPAC gathering. Videos of his speech -- > and of AIPAC's reaction -- are available across the net. Look up a few and > savor the fragrance of an Armageddonist cult in full rut. I still have the impression that Hagee et al are simply tricking the masses. Do you think Hagee really believes in his "Jerusalem Countdown" Vision? As European agnostic I find this hard to believe. But documentaries on the topic are getting momentum over here too. So I guess we can say the world watches in amazement. > > This current crop of Armaggedonists, which includes George W. Bush, is armed > with an immense arsenal of weapons of mass destruction which it feels it is > entitled (even divinely commanded) to use preemptively. What puzzles me a bit at the moment is that the people who consider the larger issue as some kind of new antisemitism often feel arrogantly enamored with the right of the empire or generally the stronger. (History is used a stone pit in this respect were apples are compared with pears. That's what puzzles me most at the moment. And exactly that feels pretty shortsighted and not very wise. Reminds me of the following flower power quote: Jimi Hendrix: When the Power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace > The American mainstream media continue to cover up what is going on, in the > hope of getting on with a war against Iran. AIPAC's ties to John Hagee should > be a huge on-going story at the New York Times, the Washington Post, MSNBC, > CNN and other big media outlets. > David Buckley catches what puzzles me about the larger scenario pretty well. I am still not sure if this is some kind of post 9/11 carpe diem/seize the moment enterprise and I doubt we will ever know. Things would look much different without 911. AIPAC: Cheerleading the Apocalypse What�s spooky about these AIPAC types is not that they�re�Jewish� (that�s too broad a brush for this crowd, and Levey knowsit); it�s that they have an agenda that dovetails nicely with theso-called �Christian Zionists� and with the remnants of the PNACCriminals. The nature of that agenda is best expressed as thedetermination to create what some have called a �Greater Israel�(a-k-a Eretz Israel) embracing ALL of the (alleged) territory ofthe ancient and relatively short-lived Kingdom of Israel ofBiblical times. Where the borders of such a state might be, is anyone�s guess;but the real point to note here is that, once we read the situationin this way, Israel is no longer the beleaguered and besieged�little democracy� which must be protected against them evil,anti-semitic, �Islamofascist� Arabs trying to push holcaustsurvivors into the sea. This is STILL, unfortunately, the popular(mis)conception portrayed by the American media, which in itseagerness to apppear more pro-Jewish-than-thou has left itself opento all kinds of idiocies. Most Americans think that Israel is infact �defenceless� against its more powerful neighbors. In reality,nothing could be further from the truth. It is in fact a majorconfrontational imperial player in the region. Its populationreached 6,000,000 around 2000; it has nuclear weapons; it routinelyspies on the U.S.; and, it uses US support as its most playablecard in the region and internationally. No other country has arecord of ignoring UN Resolutions that competes with that ofIsrael. And, the US has routinely acted like Israel�s puppet invirtually all international arenas, supporting Israeliintransigence even when this did NOT serve American interests. (Asfor instance in its current refusal to "recognize" or negotiatewith the demnocratically-elected representatives of the Palestinianpeople). Why do the �Christian Zionists� support AIPAC? Because the�restoration� of Eretz Israel has all kinds of Apocalyptic,End-Times implications that they embrace. Early Christianity, atroot, as any competent �secular� historian will tell you, wasinherently Millennial. It believed that Jesus was the Christ andthat his coming presaged the End of the World. Contemporary�Christian Zionists� are enraptured by the possibilities andimplications of the �restored� Biblical Kingdom, becuse it wouldseem to create the secular conditions necessary for the�restoration� of God�s Kingdom ... when, presumably, True Believerswill inherit the Earth (or the whirlwind, depending). What about the PNAC crew? Their �foreign policy� is not simplydictated by oil. Their aim is a permanent US military presence inthe �Eurasian theatre.� Why? Because, future US global hegemony isbelieved to be tied to geopolitical supremacy in that region.Without �boots on the ground� the US will likely be frozen out byEurope, Russia, China, or India or any combination of theseunlikely bedfellows. The biggest threat to US hegemony would be theemergence of a �regional� player ... like, say, Iran! So: It�s NOTan accident that US troops are stationed in considerable numbers onIran�s eastern and western borders. In mid-February, reports in theinternational media highlighted the fact that US planning for aninvasion of Iran had been completed. The Iraq surge may eventuallybecome the pretext for cross-border incursions into Iran and/orSyria. And, a catalyst for a wider war. Nor is it an accident thatthe American image of Iran goes back ONLY to the �Hostage Crisis�under Jimmy Carter, and completely ignores the CIA�s role in thefall of Mossadeq, and the rise and maintenance of the Shah�s brutaland repressive regime. My apologies for being so long-winded, but Israel/Palestine isTHE KEY to the Middle East. And it�s important for Americans (inparticular) to be aware of the ways in which seemingly disparategroups can become intimate bedfellows in pursuit of complementaryalbeit kooky goals. For Salonicans interested in these matters I�d recommend AviShlaim�s brilliant history of the modern Israeli state, �The IronWall.� And for proof that the PNAC foreign policy agenda is NOT, atroot, different from say that of the �liberal� Democrats, seeZbigniew Brzerzinski�s �The Great Game.� When the dust settles atthe end of this current venture, the US will have a minimalmilitary presence of 50,000 to 100,000 troops permanently stationedon the ground in westen/central Asia. THAT�s the real goal. TheAmerican Republic and its democratic heritage is a hostage to (andthe most likely casualty of) that imperial vision. -- David Buckley I shouldn't be here, but I found my old Reader subscriptions again. But it needs study, this is nothing to do instinctively without studying further it seems. So far I could only share the headlines. No idea how to make more text appear. -b --------------------------------- Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! 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