if you mean the bush to control the oil fields i agree On Sep 29, 2:58 pm, jgg1000a <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Public opinion is a fickle thing... Your claim is Iraq and > Afghanistan were never merely separate battlefields in the same > war... That is simplely false... > > On Sep 29, 12:58 pm, J <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > jgg1000a, Iraq was a mistake. Most of the American people realize > > this, even many Republicans. > > > The electorate can not take the chance that your party and its > > representatives will not make the same monumental mistakes in the > > future. It's time for real change. > > > On Sep 29, 9:49 am, jgg1000a <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > >>> George Bush and his neocon buddies created al Qaeda in Iraq by > > > >>> destabilizing the country, > > > > Bush attacked the nexus of failing nation-states, stateless terrorism, > > > and WMD... That AQ was or was not in Iraq in 2001 is not the > > > point... THE POINT IS AQ DID COME TO IRAQ AND MADE IT ITS CENTRAL > > > FRONT... Until you can understand this you have no clue... The > > > second point you fail to understand is Iraq transformed AQ's image in > > > the mOslem world from a "Freedom Fighter" to a non-religious "death > > > cult"... > > > > As to Iran, it already was embolden... You assume the removal of > > > Saddam was blocking Iran from going nuclear, it was not... Iran > > > already had started to spread influence in the ME in the Shia > > > communities since the 1980's... > > > > On Sep 27, 4:19 pm, J <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > George Bush and his neocon buddies created al Qaeda in Iraq by > > > > destabilizing the country, killing in the process 200,000 of its > > > > citizens and making 2 MILLION Iraqis homeless refugees. Obama warned > > > > of the consequences of a "dumb war" BEFORE the Iraq invasion. The > > > > Republicans diverted our precious blood and treasure on a fools > > > > mission to Iraq while the terrorists regrouped and grew stronger in > > > > Afghanistan and Pakistan. As Obama pointed out last night, an > > > > unintended consequence of the Iraq War was to strengthen and embolden > > > > Iran. > > > > > It's time for you Republican apologists and your screw-up > > > > representatives to stand down and let the country be run by an > > > > intelligent focused determined leader. > > > > > On Sep 27, 12:37 pm, jgg1000a <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > Obama thinks the fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan are not linked in > > > > > fundamental ways... He wants to believe that because AQ did not much > > > > > of a presence in Iraq in 2001 that Iraq was not seen as the central > > > > > battlefield by both the US and AQ... IT WAS SEEN AS THE CENTRAL > > > > > BATTLEFIELD BY BOTH... In not understanding this fundamental fact, > > > > > Obama's assumptions over the consequences of a pullout (either today > > > > > or 2 years ago) are critically flawed and WRONG... > > > > > > It is about judgment Hollywood,, Not understanding what the facts are > > > > > IS OBAMA'S basic lack of judgment... > > > > > > On Sep 27, 1:27 pm, Hollywood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > voxitar, > > > > > > > Typical, appearances and biased perceptions over substance. How > > > > > > something was over what was said. > > > > > > > On Sep 27, 10:34 am, voxitar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Obama looked like a student being schooled by the master. McCain > > > > > > > looked presidential, Obama just looked like whiner. > > > > > > > > On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 5:16 AM, mike532 [ Republicans for Obama ] > > > > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Six Short Takes on Why Obama Came out Ahead in the Debate > > > > > > > > >http://www.alternet.org/election08/100565/ > > > > > > > > In the first head-to-head debate of the 2008 campaign, the > > > > > > > > financial > > > > > > > > crisis dragged what the McCain camp had hoped would be fought > > > > > > > > in the > > > > > > > > GOP nominee's comfort zone -- foreign policy and national > > > > > > > > security -- > > > > > > > > squarely into the realm of domestic policy. > > > > > > > > Moderator Jim Lehrer made a smooth transition to the voters' top > > > > > > > > concern in this election, saying that we were facing a potential > > > > > > > > meltdown of the global economy, which was by definition a > > > > > > > > matter of > > > > > > > > "national security." > > > > > > > > > What followed was a microcosm of the 2008 race: Barack Obama > > > > > > > > dominated > > > > > > > > John McCain when the focus of the debate was on the domestic > > > > > > > > sphere > > > > > > > > and a fast-deteriorating financial sector, but ceded an enormous > > > > > > > > amount of political space to McCain on national security, > > > > > > > > accepting > > > > > > > > much of the Arizona senator's overarching neoconservative > > > > > > > > narrative > > > > > > > > that the United States is surrounded by mortal danger and > > > > > > > > evildoers > > > > > > > > and has a moral duty to maintain our forces in Iraq and > > > > > > > > elsewhere in > > > > > > > > order to defend the homeland. > > > > > > > > > McCain appeared twitchy and out of touch as the debate began > > > > > > > > with the > > > > > > > > banking meltdown and the Bush-Paulson plan to reverse it. He > > > > > > > > blinked > > > > > > > > rapidly and avoided eye contact with Obama, Lehrer and the > > > > > > > > audience as > > > > > > > > Obama came out swinging against McCain for enabling the "root > > > > > > > > causes" > > > > > > > > of the crisis to develop during decades in the Congress, > > > > > > > > including a > > > > > > > > long stint on the Senate Committee on Commerce, Science and > > > > > > > > Transportation. > > > > > > > > > Obama articulately condemned what he called a "philosophy that > > > > > > > > says > > > > > > > > that regulation is always bad," and blamed its pervasiveness > > > > > > > > for the > > > > > > > > economic mess. McCain, moments before saying that we have the > > > > > > > > "greatest workers in the world" (and that the United States is > > > > > > > > simultaneously the "greatest importer" and "greatest exporter" > > > > > > > > in the > > > > > > > > world), tried to shift blame from Wall Street to Main Street -- > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > predatory lenders and fast-and-loose brokers to those who find > > > > > > > > themselves with a home on the bubble today. > > > > > > > > > It's a losing strategy. > > > > > > > > > Obama, on the other hand, must be extremely confident that this > > > > > > > > election will be decided on the economy, as he failed to > > > > > > > > challenge > > > > > > > > McCain on his belligerent stance toward the rest of the world. > > > > > > > > > He conceded that the "surge has worked" -- it has not. He tried > > > > > > > > to go > > > > > > > > toe to toe with John "Bomb, Bomb Iran" McCain on the evils of > > > > > > > > Iran. He > > > > > > > > called Venezuela a "rogue state." He engaged in a bit of > > > > > > > > fearmongering > > > > > > > > himself, saying that while he supports missile defense -- a > > > > > > > > boondoggle > > > > > > > > if ever there was one -- the greatest threat we face is from > > > > > > > > suitcase > > > > > > > > nukes. > > > > > > > > > As Obama agreed with so much of McCain's worldview, McCain's > > > > > > > > discomfort disappeared, and he landed several good knocks on > > > > > > > > Obama. He > > > > > > > > repeatedly called him "naive." > > > > > > > > > But, in the final analysis, a day after Washington Mutual went > > > > > > > > down in > > > > > > > > flames, I doubt that it'll be enough to get McCain out of the > > > > > > > > hole in > > > > > > > > which he finds himself. > > > > > > > > > Don Hazen: > > > > > > > > > If you were an Obama champion and wanted McCain to fall flat, > > > > > > > > you were > > > > > > > > disappointed. McCain is a tough, pugnacious debater, and he > > > > > > > > tried to > > > > > > > > control the talk time, going on and on. He's knowledgeable, and > > > > > > > > as we > > > > > > > > know, he whipped all of the Republicans during the primaries. > > > > > > > > But the > > > > > > > > big picture is that McCain probably had to do better since he is > > > > > > > > behind on the momentum and had to beat Obama with his supposed > > > > > > > > strength -- foreign affairs -- and there is a consensus among > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > commentators that he didn't do that. > > > > > > > > > If you reflect more on the meta or emotional level, McCain > > > > > > > > spent most > > > > > > > > of his time talking about the past and focused on Iraq -- > > > > > > > > making sure > > > > > > > > everyone knew that we had to win. That was the most important > > > > > > > > point he > > > > > > > > needed to make. But if this election is about change, then > > > > > > > > McCain > > > > > > > > reinforced his role as part of the problem. For most of the > > > > > > > > public, > > > > > > > > Iraq is past tense. Sixty percent think the economy is the key > > > > > > > > issue. > > > > > > > > And in terms of bread and butter, the numbers that people are > > > > > > > > likely > > > > > > > > to remember are not the $18 billion earmarks discussion, but > > > > > > > > rather > > > > > > > > the fact that 95 percent of the population will get a tax cut > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > Obama -- everyone who makes under $250,000. Meanwhile, the > > > > > > > > figure > > > > > > > > associated with McCain is likely to be $300 billion in tax cuts > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > corporations and the wealthy, while we have a huge deficit. > > > > > > > > Obama had > > > > > > > > to make kitchen table points stick, and he seemed to achieve > > > > > > > > that, > > > > > > > > repeating these points several times. > > > > > > > > > The pundits were also speculating that independent voters > > > > > > > > didn't like > > > > > > > > McCain's condescension and repeating that Obama "doesn't get > > > > > > > > it." Here > > > > > > > > McCain could be seen as the cranky older guy, sounding a little > > > > > > > > insecure, while Obama didn't rise to the bait. In fact, Obama > > > > > > > > agreed > > > > > > > > with McCain a number of times, suggesting that Obama was more > > > > > > > > capable > > > > > > > > of working across the aisle. > > > > > > > > > 123Next page »- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
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