jgg, When did the U.S become everyone's control-freak mother?
Oh they won't do it RIGHT, I just better do this myself for their own good. Once they realize I'm always right, they will thank me for it. On Oct 3, 1:31 pm, jgg1000a <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The UN is dysfunctional concerning issues like Iraq, Iran, Sudan, or > Georgia... Your position is one whose consequence was NOTHING WAS TO > BE DONE while Sanctions were removed AND Saddam rebuilt his WMD > stockpiles... That is what you and Obama refuse to accept -- the > cold hard reality of what would have happened without Saddam's > removal... > > On Oct 2, 4:26 pm, Hollywood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > jgg, > > > Why was it America's problem in the 1st place? Sounds like a regional, > > or at most a U.N. problem. > > > On Oct 2, 3:08 pm, jgg1000a <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > If one accepts your premise, the question then is what does one do > > > with Saddam's Iraq... > > > > 1) Sanctions were on the verge of failing, in part due to the > > > corruption in the UN's oil for food program and in part due to France, > > > Russian, and German willingness to ignore the sanctions... We did > > > find out that Saddam had full intention to rebuild stockpile of WMD > > > once sanctions ended... > > > > 2) we never would have discovered the Pakistan trade in WMD > > > technology, > > > > 3) Iraq nor the entire would have had no reform towards democracy > > > > What to do about the nexus of failing states (yes Iraq was one) > > > stateless terrorism, and cheap WMD??? All these question, if one > > > accepts the premise of keeping Saddam in power, would have insured > > > greater problems... > > > > On Oct 2, 12:19 am, J <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > My claim, even before the Iraq War, was that the Iraq War is a > > > > mistake. > > > > > Obama has the best judgment to bring to our Congress for vote battles > > > > which the American people must fight. > > > > > McCain is a reckless impetuous too old hot-head, last in his class, a > > > > George Armstrong Custer type, who , mark my words if he's elected > > > > president, will cause our nation to go down in flames. > > > > > On Sep 29, 1:58 pm, jgg1000a <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > Public opinion is a fickle thing... Your claim is Iraq and > > > > > Afghanistan were never merely separate battlefields in the same > > > > > war... That is simplely false... > > > > > > On Sep 29, 12:58 pm, J <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > jgg1000a, Iraq was a mistake. Most of the American people realize > > > > > > this, even many Republicans. > > > > > > > The electorate can not take the chance that your party and its > > > > > > representatives will not make the same monumental mistakes in the > > > > > > future. It's time for real change. > > > > > > > On Sep 29, 9:49 am, jgg1000a <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > >>> George Bush and his neocon buddies created al Qaeda in Iraq > > > > > > > >>> by destabilizing the country, > > > > > > > > Bush attacked the nexus of failing nation-states, stateless > > > > > > > terrorism, > > > > > > > and WMD... That AQ was or was not in Iraq in 2001 is not the > > > > > > > point... THE POINT IS AQ DID COME TO IRAQ AND MADE IT ITS CENTRAL > > > > > > > FRONT... Until you can understand this you have no clue... The > > > > > > > second point you fail to understand is Iraq transformed AQ's > > > > > > > image in > > > > > > > the mOslem world from a "Freedom Fighter" to a non-religious > > > > > > > "death > > > > > > > cult"... > > > > > > > > As to Iran, it already was embolden... You assume the removal of > > > > > > > Saddam was blocking Iran from going nuclear, it was not... Iran > > > > > > > already had started to spread influence in the ME in the Shia > > > > > > > communities since the 1980's... > > > > > > > > On Sep 27, 4:19 pm, J <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > George Bush and his neocon buddies created al Qaeda in Iraq by > > > > > > > > destabilizing the country, killing in the process 200,000 of its > > > > > > > > citizens and making 2 MILLION Iraqis homeless refugees. Obama > > > > > > > > warned > > > > > > > > of the consequences of a "dumb war" BEFORE the Iraq invasion. > > > > > > > > The > > > > > > > > Republicans diverted our precious blood and treasure on a fools > > > > > > > > mission to Iraq while the terrorists regrouped and grew > > > > > > > > stronger in > > > > > > > > Afghanistan and Pakistan. As Obama pointed out last night, an > > > > > > > > unintended consequence of the Iraq War was to strengthen and > > > > > > > > embolden > > > > > > > > Iran. > > > > > > > > > It's time for you Republican apologists and your screw-up > > > > > > > > representatives to stand down and let the country be run by an > > > > > > > > intelligent focused determined leader. > > > > > > > > > On Sep 27, 12:37 pm, jgg1000a <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Obama thinks the fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan are not > > > > > > > > > linked in > > > > > > > > > fundamental ways... He wants to believe that because AQ did > > > > > > > > > not much > > > > > > > > > of a presence in Iraq in 2001 that Iraq was not seen as the > > > > > > > > > central > > > > > > > > > battlefield by both the US and AQ... IT WAS SEEN AS THE > > > > > > > > > CENTRAL > > > > > > > > > BATTLEFIELD BY BOTH... In not understanding this fundamental > > > > > > > > > fact, > > > > > > > > > Obama's assumptions over the consequences of a pullout > > > > > > > > > (either today > > > > > > > > > or 2 years ago) are critically flawed and WRONG... > > > > > > > > > > It is about judgment Hollywood,, Not understanding what the > > > > > > > > > facts are > > > > > > > > > IS OBAMA'S basic lack of judgment... > > > > > > > > > > On Sep 27, 1:27 pm, Hollywood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > voxitar, > > > > > > > > > > > Typical, appearances and biased perceptions over substance. > > > > > > > > > > How > > > > > > > > > > something was over what was said. > > > > > > > > > > > On Sep 27, 10:34 am, voxitar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Obama looked like a student being schooled by the master. > > > > > > > > > > > McCain > > > > > > > > > > > looked presidential, Obama just looked like whiner. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 5:16 AM, mike532 [ Republicans > > > > > > > > > > > for Obama ] > > > > > > > > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Six Short Takes on Why Obama Came out Ahead in the > > > > > > > > > > > > Debate > > > > > > > > > > > > >http://www.alternet.org/election08/100565/ > > > > > > > > > > > > In the first head-to-head debate of the 2008 campaign, > > > > > > > > > > > > the financial > > > > > > > > > > > > crisis dragged what the McCain camp had hoped would be > > > > > > > > > > > > fought in the > > > > > > > > > > > > GOP nominee's comfort zone -- foreign policy and > > > > > > > > > > > > national security -- > > > > > > > > > > > > squarely into the realm of domestic policy. > > > > > > > > > > > > Moderator Jim Lehrer made a smooth transition to the > > > > > > > > > > > > voters' top > > > > > > > > > > > > concern in this election, saying that we were facing a > > > > > > > > > > > > potential > > > > > > > > > > > > meltdown of the global economy, which was by definition > > > > > > > > > > > > a matter of > > > > > > > > > > > > "national security." > > > > > > > > > > > > > What followed was a microcosm of the 2008 race: Barack > > > > > > > > > > > > Obama dominated > > > > > > > > > > > > John McCain when the focus of the debate was on the > > > > > > > > > > > > domestic sphere > > > > > > > > > > > > and a fast-deteriorating financial sector, but ceded an > > > > > > > > > > > > enormous > > > > > > > > > > > > amount of political space to McCain on national > > > > > > > > > > > > security, accepting > > > > > > > > > > > > much of the Arizona senator's overarching > > > > > > > > > > > > neoconservative narrative > > > > > > > > > > > > that the United States is surrounded by mortal danger > > > > > > > > > > > > and evildoers > > > > > > > > > > > > and has a moral duty to maintain our forces in Iraq and > > > > > > > > > > > > elsewhere in > > > > > > > > > > > > order to defend the homeland. > > > > > > > > > > > > > McCain appeared twitchy and out of touch as the debate > > > > > > > > > > > > began with the > > > > > > > > > > > > banking meltdown and the Bush-Paulson plan to reverse > > > > > > > > > > > > it. He blinked > > > > > > > > > > > > rapidly and avoided eye contact with Obama, Lehrer and > > > > > > > > > > > > the audience as > > > > > > > > > > > > Obama came out swinging against McCain for enabling the > > > > > > > > > > > > "root causes" > > > > > > > > > > > > of the crisis to develop during decades in the > > > > > > > > > > > > Congress, including a > > > > > > > > > > > > long stint on the Senate Committee on Commerce, Science > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > Transportation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Obama articulately condemned what he called a > > > > > > > > > > > > "philosophy that says > > > > > > > > > > > > that regulation is always bad," and blamed its > > > > > > > > > > > > pervasiveness for the > > > > > > > > > > > > economic mess. McCain, moments before saying that we > > > > > > > > > > > > have the > > > > > > > > > > > > "greatest workers in the world" (and that the United > > > > > > > > > > > > States is > > > > > > > > > > > > simultaneously the "greatest importer" and "greatest > > > > > > > > > > > > exporter" in the > > > > > > > > > > > > world), tried to shift blame from Wall Street to Main > > > > > > > > > > > > Street -- from > > > > > > > > > > > > predatory lenders and fast-and-loose brokers to those > > > > > > > > > > > > who find > > > > > > > > > > > > themselves with a home on the bubble today. > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's a losing strategy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Obama, on the other hand, must be extremely confident > > > > > > > > > > > > that this > > > > > > > > > > > > election will be decided on the economy, as he failed > > > > > > > > > > > > to challenge > > > > > > > > > > > > McCain on his belligerent stance toward the rest of the > > > > > > > > > > > > world. > > > > > > > > > > > > > He conceded that the "surge has worked" -- it has not. > > > > > > > > > > > > He tried to go > > > > > > > > > > > > toe to toe with John "Bomb, Bomb Iran" McCain on the > > > > > > > > > > > > evils of Iran. He > > > > > > > > > > > > called Venezuela a "rogue state." He engaged in a bit > > > > > > > > > > > > of fearmongering > > > > > > > > > > > > himself, saying that while he supports missile defense > > > > > > > > > > > > -- a boondoggle > > > > > > > > > > > > if ever there was one -- the greatest threat we face is > > > > > > > > > > > > from suitcase > > > > > > > > > > > > nukes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > As Obama agreed with so much of McCain's worldview, > > > > > > > > > > > > McCain's > > > > > > > > > > > > discomfort disappeared, and he landed several good > > > > > > > > > > > > knocks on Obama. He > > > > > > > > > > > > repeatedly called him "naive." > > > > > > > > > > > > > But, in the final analysis, a day after Washington > > > > > > > > > > > > Mutual went down in > > > > > > > > > > > > flames, I doubt that it'll be enough to get McCain out > > > > > > > > > > > > of the hole in > > > > > > > > > > > > which he finds himself. > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. * Read the latest breaking news, and more. -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
