Thanx for the info......hard to digest and I, as an outsider, have a tough time understanding the conflicts that these groups have with each other. You mentioned the Turks identify themselves as Sufi and that they ".... are non-violent and spiritual." If that is so how do you explain the creation and growth of the old Ottoman Empire that the Turks created? Sorry, but to me Islam is violence, death and totalitarianism disguised as a religion. Your Uncle may be a good man but the "good Germans " were irrelevant to the Nazis and their killing machine, the "good Italians" irrelevant to the Fascists, the "good Japanese" irrelevant to the War Lords that conducted the Second World War.......and I am sure that those good people were a majority of their total population with in their own countries but still their leaders brought death and destruction to the whole world and had to be stopped. In a message dated 10/13/2014 10:04:21 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, [email protected] writes:
Sufis are about 40% of all Muslims, the Turks actually identify themselves as Sufi. The Sufis are non-violent and spiritual ... the Wiki page is pretty good with info on Sufism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufism And a simplified description of the 4 major divisions in Islam can be found here: http://contenderministries.org/islam/divisions.php On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 12:10 PM, Hot4azintop via PoliticalForum <[email protected]_ (mailto:[email protected]) > wrote: ......and that is exactly what ISIS has done as you point out.....they have pulled out those passages from the Koran that justify their actions. Please do not forget that when Mohammad was asked about the apparent conflict in his own messages ....he told his followers that the "true message of Islam" are always the latest writings and pronouncements. The early peaceful messages that he issued at the beginning of the movement were only necessary to further his movement and because if he said what he truly believed as the later writings indicate then the majority of non believers at the beginning would end his quest for power. He himself told his followers his real true messages were the latest ones he gave and those are the most violent and un compromising tactics as he had achieved a majority at that time of believers. He did not need to consider any minority thinking and it was not tolerated upon penalty of death. It's all layed out in Islamic teachings........BTW, the secular Moslems are the Turks who find themselves being attacked internally and fear of external attack by ISIS believers of the greater Islamic State. I admit up front that I am not familiar with the Sufi. How do they differ from the Shites and Sunni? How are they the same? Thanx In a message dated 10/13/2014 7:00:13 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, [email protected]_ (mailto:[email protected]) writes: All Islam is not Sunni and Shia, they are the bad guys, not the Sufi and millions of secular Muslims ... the IS people are not following the true teachings of the religion ... you can pull out passages of the Bible or Talmud to justify stoning and killing people if you choose to!!! On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 4:35 AM, Hot4azintop via PoliticalForum <[email protected]_ (mailto:[email protected]) > wrote: Respectfully, how am I "misinformed"? The head of the new ISIS State is extremely educated in Islam and holds a Phd. in Islamic studies and clearly states their actions on the ground are consistent with the teachings from Islam, chapter and verse. Because you have a great kind Uncle who happens to be of a different faith or culture then we Americans, does not change the basic teachings of the Islamic religion. He sounds like a very good man who taught you some of the basic Christian philopshy and as you yourself point out how tolerance in Islam does not extend to the Sunni and Shia factions of Islam which have been warring with each other since the death of Mohammad around the year 600.They have had a 1,000 years to get over it but have not. My guess is ISIS would have your Uncle's head for believing and teaching as you have described. In a message dated 10/12/2014 3:05:17 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, [email protected]_ (mailto:[email protected]) writes: I will have to say that you are misinformed!!! I grew up and at 55+ years old the greatest influence on my life has been my Uncle Sal. He was the one who taught me tolerance of others who are different and that God does not care what God you believe in, only that if you believe in God, you will get his great blessings!!! I was raised to accept people that are different than me and respect every culture and religion, no matter how different it may be, he taught me communicate with people who were different than me and try to understand their version of reality!!! Who is this amazing man??? He is Salaheddin Mahallati, trained as an eye surgeon in Iran and was worried that he would hurt someone because he was nervous as a surgeon and went back to school to become a pediatrician, he met and married my Aunt when he was a resident in Bayonne Hospital. His family has been a holy family in Shiraz for over 500 years, my Uncle Sal is a Sufi Mystic and unless you actually know a Sufi Muslim, you have not met the soul of the religion ... Sunni and Shia are factions that have been killing each other since the prophet died!!! Since the 70s the worst aspect of Islam has been in the forefront of the media and what pisses me off most is that our "allies" the Saudis do nothing to calm down the region, the royal family are the highest form of evil, they keep the conflict going and suck the US into it because of our need for their oil!!! If we had weaned ourselves off of oil like President Carter suggested, we may not be in these endless conflicts!!! By not investing in alternatives to oil, we have become pawns of the assholes in the middle eats!!! On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 5:29 PM, Hot4azintop via PoliticalForum <[email protected]_ (mailto:[email protected]) > wrote: The new Islamic State is headed up by a man with a Phd. in Islamic studies and to say this man is corrupting Islam is not the truth......he lives up to the teachings of Islam in every respect and does nothing that is contrary to those teachings.....for that very reason he is a very scary man......and that's why the other despots in the region who pick and choice their Islamic teachings are scared to death of him because if he is sucessful those despots loose their heads and being alive and align with the western devils is better then loosing their heads to a true Islamist. In a message dated 10/12/2014 6:41:50 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, [email protected]_ (mailto:[email protected]) writes: PBS: Public Bull Shit http://terrortrendsbulletin.com/2014/10/10/massive-taqiyya-courtesy-of-pbs/ MASSIVE Taqiyya Courtesy of PBS Taqiyya is a part of the doctrine of Islam (shariah) that means “sacred deception.” Under taqiyya, Muslims are permitted to lie if it promotes Islam and, in cases where it promotes something obligatory in Islam, lying is obligatory. We now have a stark example of taqiyya at work courtesy of PBS. As part of the shrill effort from the radical Left in the West to perpetuate the myth that the Islamic State is “not Islamic,” PBS engaged Rashid Khalidi of Columbia University to attempt to say that the Islamic State is purposely misinterpreting the Quran. First of all, Rashid Khalidi is hardly a reliable source for anything. Khalidi is a strident Palestinian activist who blames America and Israel first for all the problems of the Middle East. He’s also a long-time supporter and associate of Barack Obama, who started the whole “ISIS is not Islamic” narrative. Khalidi proceeded to provide a taqiyya-ridden explanation of Sura 47, Verse 4 of the Quran in which he claims that this infamous verse does not justify beheadings. He is so wrong that he can’t possibly be just mistaken: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/isis-uses-half-quran-verse-justify-behea dings-see-whats-half/ What Khalidi says 47/4 says is NOT what my Quran says Sura 47 Verse 4 says. Here is the whole verse in my Quran: “So, when you meet (in fight–Jihad in Allah’s cause) those who disbelieve, smite (their) necks till when you have KILLED (emphasis added) and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly (on them, i.e. take them captives). Thereafter (is the time) either for generosity (i.e. free them without ransom), or ransom (according to what benefits Islam), until the war lays down its burden. Thus [you are ordered by Allah to continue in carrying out Jihad against the disbelievers till they embrace Islam and are saved from the punishment in the Hell-fire or at least come under your protection], but if it had been Allah’s Will, He Himself could certainly have punished them (without you). But (He lets you fight) in order to test some of you with others. But those who are killed in the Way of Allah, He will never let their deeds be lost.” ************* Obviously, the word KILLED is pretty important here and it is clearly in my Quran in 47/4: The Noble Quran Published by Darussalam Riyadh, Saudi Arabia This directly contradicts Khalidi’s contention that all the victims are to be bound, therefore they can’t be dead, therefore, the verse doesn’t say to cut off anyone’s head. So I checked some online versions: http://quran.com/47 “So when you meet those who disbelieve [in battle], strike [their] necks until, when you have inflicted slaughter upon them, then secure their bonds, and either [confer] favor afterwards or ransom [them] until the war lays down its burdens. That [is the command]. And if Allah had willed, He could have taken vengeance upon them [Himself], but [He ordered armed struggle] to test some of you by means of others. And those who are killed in the cause of Allah – never will He waste their deeds.” Note the use of the term SLAUGHTER. Does someone know of a definition of “ slaughter” that doesn’t involve killing? http://al-quran.info/#47:4 When you meet the faithless in battle, strike their necks. When you have thoroughly decimated them, bind the captives firmly. Thereafter either oblige them [by setting them free] or take ransom till the war lays down its burdens. That [is Allah’s ordinance], and had Allah wished He could have taken vengeance on them,1 but that He may test some of you by means of others. As for those who were slain in the way of Allah, He will not let their works go awry. “Decimated” literally means to have killed one out of every ten of the enemy. http://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_display.php?chapter=47&translator=4&mac= Now when ye meet in battle those who disbelieve, then it is smiting of the necks until, when ye have routed them, then making fast of bonds; and afterward either grace or ransom till the war lay down its burdens. That (is the ordinance). And if Allah willed He could have punished them (without you) but (thus it is ordained) that He may try some of you by means of others. And those who are slain in the way of Allah, He rendereth not their actions vain. Here again there is no suggestion that anyone be spared, at least until the enemy is routed. Presumably one must kill some of the enemy to rout them. http://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_display.php?chapter=47&translator=5&mac= So, when you meet (in fight – Jihad in Allah’s Cause) those who disbelieve, smite (their) necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly (on them, i.e. take them as captives). Thereafter (is the time) either for generosity (i.e. free them without ransom), or ransom (according to what benefits Islam), until the war lays down its burden. Thus [you are ordered by Allah to continue in carrying out Jihad against the disbelievers till they embrace Islam and are saved from the punishment in the Hell-fire or at least come under your protection], but if it had been Allah’s Will, He Himself could certainly have punished them (without you). But (He lets you fight) in order to test some of you with others. But those who are killed in the Way of Allah, He will never let their deeds be lost. This version perhaps most clearly contradicts Khalidi’s fabrication. Finally, that one verse of the Quran is not the only justification in Islamic scripture for beheading. Here is an article that cites the origins for beheading in Islamic scripture beyond 47/4: http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/SKM40715.htm The real culprits here are the biased crew at PBS (courtesy of your tax dollars and mine, by the way). We expect nothing less than taqiyya from the likes of Khalidi. But PBS is SUPPOSED to at least make a head-fake at being professional and objective. They weren’t here and there is no doubt that the reporter, Hari Sreenivasan, could easily have done the same research we did here to check Khalidi’s assertion. But Sreenivasan did not check with multiple sources for confirmation. 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