I too believe that President Obama is a Christian. --- hot damn ... the sky is falling.
the President never got to participate in our national holidays like the Fourth of July, Labor Day, Memorial Day or even Christmas; that most Americans with their families, and in their communities celebrate and hold reverent. There was no going to Church on Sundays or Sunday School --- no religious tests in secular America - TJ On Tuesday, July 19, 2016 at 9:39:59 PM UTC-5, KeithInTampa wrote: > > Hey Brine! > > I agree with you somewhat.....I too believe that President Obama is a > Christian. The President says that he is, and although the President has > lied to the American people, I will take him at his word. > > Maybe better said, I don’t believe that President Obama is a Muslim. As > I have said before; I do believe that President Obama’s life experiences > are far different than most Americans. At a young age, President Obama’s > Mother and Muslim father separated, and shortly thereafter the President’s > Mother remarried an Indonesian Muslim, where the family eventually > relocated. President Obama’s early education was in Indonesia in Islamic > schools. > > More importantly, the President never had the opportunity to engage in > childhood activities that you and I probably take for granted. As a child, > President Obama never went to baseball or football games; or heard the > jingle of the ice cream truck rolling around the neighborhood. There were > no organized sports practices or sandlot football games in the > neighborhood. Likewise, when growing up, the President never got to > participate in our national holidays like the Fourth of July, Labor Day, > Memorial Day or even Christmas; that most Americans with their families, > and in their communities celebrate and hold reverent. There was no going > to Church on Sundays or Sunday School. All of these concepts are foreign > to the President…..What the President does relate to, and as the President > has referred to on numerous occasions; President Obama grew up hearing and > believed that the Islamic call to prayer was, “one of the prettiest sounds > on Earth at sunset.” > > > On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 6:55 PM, Brian Bednarek <[email protected] > <javascript:>> wrote: > >> The man claims to be a Christian and I believe him ... he had exposure to >> Muslim culture and Islam, so he understands it ... I will say that my >> childhood growing up with an Iranian Uncle who is a Sufi Mystic helped me >> more tolerant and realize that there is only one God and as long as you >> honor him, it doesn't matter what religion you are!!! >> >> Plain Ol, I know you are anti Religion and I understand that, but I do >> have my concept of faith that works for me, don't want to push it on others >> and hope others could find a way to feel happy and spiritual on some >> level!!! >> >> On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 3:15 PM, plainolamerican <[email protected] >> <javascript:>> wrote: >> >>> Summary >>> >>> A widely viewed video seems to show President Obama stating that he is a >>> Muslim. It is false, and the product of dishonest editing. >>> >>> Although it is titled "Obama Admits He Is A Muslim," the president in >>> fact has admitted no such thing. The video edits and twists his actual >>> words, sometimes turning what were denials into false confessions. For >>> example, it edits out the words "I’m a Christian" from one quote and "my >>> Christian faith" from another. It shows him quoting from the Quran, but >>> snips out his quotes from the Bible and the Talmud. >>> >>> Although the video gives no citations and no dates, we have tracked down >>> the full quotes from the various appearances. In the Analysis section that >>> follows, we take the video section by section, comparing the edited quotes >>> and graphics with the full reality of what Obama actually said. >>> >>> We doubt many will take this nasty bit of misrepresentation seriously. >>> Nevertheless, it provides an interesting case study of malicious editing. >>> Analysis >>> >>> We’ve received many queries about this video >>> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCAffMSWSzY>, which has amassed more >>> than 1 million views since it was posted Aug. 7. It is titled "Obama Admits >>> He Is A Muslim" and is just over nine-and-a-half minutes long. It blends >>> edited snippets of Obama’s own words from various appearances as a >>> candidate and as president, with on-screen graphics giving the editorial >>> opinions of the video’s creator. >>> >>> "Obama’s Muslim Roots" >>> >>> The first section opens with a portion of the address >>> <http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/Remarks-By-President-Obama-To-The-Turkish-Parliament/> >>> the >>> president gave April 6, 2009, to the Turkish Parliament in Ankara. >>> >>> Edited quote: Many other Americans have Muslims in their families or >>> have lived in a Muslim-majority country — I know, because I am one of them. >>> >>> Full quote: The United States has been enriched by Muslim Americans. >>> Many other Americans have Muslims in their families or have lived in a >>> Muslim-majority country — I know, because I am one of them. >>> >>> When Obama says "I am one of them," he was speaking not of Muslims but >>> of "other" Americans. He was making a distinction between Muslim Americans >>> and *non-*Muslims who either have Muslim relatives or have lived in a >>> country (such as Turkey) where the population is predominately Muslim. >>> >>> The video next shows a snippet of a speech >>> <http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/Remarks-by-the-President-at-Cairo-University-6-04-09> >>> Obama >>> gave June 4 at Cairo University in Egypt. >>> >>> Edited quote: My father came from a Kenyan family that includes >>> generations of Muslims. As a boy, I spent several years in Indonesia and >>> heard the call of the azaan [call to prayer] at the break of dawn and at >>> the fall of dusk. >>> >>> Full quote: I’m a Christian, but my father came from a Kenyan family >>> that includes generations of Muslims. As a boy, I spent several years in >>> Indonesia and heard the call of the azaan at the break of dawn and at the >>> fall of dusk. >>> >>> Far from admitting he’s a Muslim, Obama says "I’m a Christian." But the >>> video’s creator leaves that on the cutting room floor. >>> >>> The video continues with a later selection from the Cairo speech: >>> >>> Edited quote: So I have known Islam on three continents before coming >>> to the region where it was first revealed. That experience guides my >>> conviction >>> >>> Full quote: So I have known Islam on three continents before coming to >>> the region where it was first revealed. That experience guides my >>> conviction that partnership between America and Islam must be based on what >>> Islam is, not what it isn’t. >>> >>> The edited version invites the viewer to think that Obama was saying >>> that his own *religious*"conviction" is based on personal experiences >>> in Islamic countries. But the full quote shows Obama was talking about a >>> different sort of conviction: his belief that Americans shouldn’t be guided >>> by false notions about the Muslim faith. >>> >>> The video then gives a truncated version of an exchange between Obama >>> and ABC News’ George Stephanopoulos from Sept. 7, 2008: >>> >>> Edited Quote — Obama: You’re absolutely right that John McCain has not >>> talked about my Muslim faith >>> >>> Full Quote — Obama: You’re absolutely right that John McCain has not >>> talked about my Muslim faith and you’re absolutely right that that has not … >>> Stephanopoulos (interrupting): Your Christian faith. >>> Obama: My Christian faith. Well, what I’m saying … >>> Stephanopoulos (interrupting): Connections, right. >>> Obama (continuing) is that he hasn’t suggested that I’m a Muslim, and I >>> think that his campaign upper echelons have not either. What I think is >>> fair to say is that coming out of the Republican camp, there have been >>> efforts to suggest that perhaps I’m not what who I say I am when it comes >>> to my faith, something which I find deeply offensive, and that has been >>> going on for a pretty long time. >>> >>> The reference to "my Muslim faith" was widely described at the time as a >>> gaffe. *The Washington Times* reported >>> <http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/sep/07/obama-verbal-slip-fuels-his-critics/> >>> it >>> as a "slip of the tongue." By leaving out the words "my Christian faith," >>> the video dishonestly attempts to reverse the meaning of what Obama was >>> saying. >>> >>> This section of the video closes with an on-screen graphic that slightly >>> mangles a *New York Times* article >>> <http://select.nytimes.com/2007/03/06/opinion/06kristof.html?_r=3> from >>> March 6, 2007, by columnist Nicholas Kristof. >>> >>> Video: In a 2007 interview with the New York Times, Obama recited the >>> Muslim call to prayer in a perfect Arabic accent, and then went on to say >>> that the Muslim call to prayer was "the prettiest sound on earth." >>> >>> Actual NYT passage: Mr. Obama recalled the opening lines of the Arabic >>> call to prayer, reciting them with a first-rate accent. In a remark that >>> seemed delightfully uncalculated (it’ll give Alabama voters heart attacks), >>> Mr. Obama described the call to prayer as “one of the prettiest sounds on >>> Earth at sunset." >>> >>> The video exaggerates. Kristof actually described Obama’s accent as >>> "first rate" but not "perfect." And Obama said the call to prayer is "one >>> of" the prettiest sounds, not the prettiest of all. These distortions are >>> minor, but still part of a systematic misrepresentation of the record. >>> >>> "Obama Quotes from the Koran" >>> >>> The second section, called "Obama quotes from the Koran," shows Obama >>> quoting from Islam’s holy book during his Cairo speech. What is not >>> apparent from the edited version is that the president was telling his >>> mostly Muslim audience that terrorists violate moral principles taught by >>> the Quran. The video also edits out Obama’s references to the Bible and the >>> Talmud as it strains to make the case that he’s a Muslim. >>> >>> Edited quote: As the holy Quran tells us … The holy Quran teaches that >>> … the holy Quran tells us … and the holy Quran also says . . >>> >>> Actual Passages: >>> >>> Obama: As the holy Quran tells us, "Be conscious of God and speak >>> always the truth." That is what I will try to do today — to speak the truth >>> as best I can, humbled by the task before us, and firm in my belief that >>> the interests we share as human beings are far more powerful than the >>> forces that drive us apart. >>> >>> Obama: Indeed, none of us should tolerate these extremists. They have >>> killed in many countries. They have killed people of different faiths — but >>> more than any other, they have killed Muslims. Their actions are >>> irreconcilable with the rights of human beings, the progress of nations, >>> and with Islam. The Holy Koran teaches that whoever kills an innocent is as >>> — it is as if he has killed all mankind. And the Holy Koran also says >>> whoever saves a person, it is as if he has saved all mankind. >>> >>> Obama: We have the power to make the world we seek, but only if we have >>> the courage to make a new beginning, keeping in mind what has been written. >>> >>> The holy Quran tells us, "O mankind! We have created you male and a >>> female; and we have made you into nations and tribes so that you may know >>> one another." >>> >>> The Talmud tells us: "The whole of the Torah is for the purpose of >>> promoting peace." >>> >>> The holy Bible tells us, "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be >>> called sons of God." >>> >>> "Obama Praises and Glorifies Islam" >>> >>> This section begins with a passage that is accurate enough, but does not >>> make clear that Obama was addressing leaders of a predominately Muslim >>> ally, Turkey. It is from his April 6 address to the Turkish Parliament. >>> >>> Obama: We will convey our deep appreciation for the Islamic faith, >>> which has done so much over the centuries to shape the world. >>> >>> That is followed by excerpts from a March 19 video address >>> <http://www.whitehouse.gov/nowruz/> the White House released on the >>> Internet, in which Obama praised the "culture" of Iran and called it a >>> "great civilization." What’s edited out is that Obama was speaking on >>> Nowruz, the traditional first day of the year on the Persian calendar. >>> Nowruz originated <http://www.zoroastrian.org/articles/nowruz.htm> in >>> the Zoroastrian religion and had beencelebrated >>> <http://www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Celebrations/norooz.htm> for more than a >>> century before Islam arrived in what is now Iran. Although Obama referred >>> to the "Islamic Republic of Iran" — the present-day official name of the >>> country — he was offering no praise or glorification of the Islamic >>> religion, but rather praising the more ancient Persian culture of Iran. >>> >>> Edited quote: I would like to speak directly to the people and leaders >>> of the Islamic Republic of Iran … your great and celebrated culture. Over >>> many centuries your art, your music, literature and innovation have made >>> the world a better and more beautiful place. … We know that you are a great >>> civilization, and your accomplishments have earned the respect of the >>> United States and the world. >>> >>> Full quote: Today I want to extend my very best wishes to all who are >>> celebrating Nowruz around the world. This holiday is both an ancient ritual >>> and a moment of renewal, and I hope that you enjoy this special time of >>> year with friends and family. >>> >>> In particular, I would like to speak directly to the people and leaders >>> of the Islamic Republic of Iran. Nowruz is just one part of your great and >>> celebrated culture. Over many centuries your art, your music, literature >>> and innovation have made the world a better and more beautiful place. Here >>> in the United States our own communities have been enhanced by the >>> contributions of Iranian Americans. We know that you are a great >>> civilization, and your accomplishments have earned the respect of the >>> United States and the world. >>> >>> "Obama Defends Islam" >>> >>> This whole section relies on excerpts of the Cairo speech >>> <http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/Remarks-by-the-President-at-Cairo-University-6-04-09>. >>> >>> In none of them does Obama say he himself is a Muslim. This quote leaves >>> out some context: >>> >>> Edited quote: For instance, in the United States, rules on charitable >>> giving have made it harder for Muslims to fulfill their religious >>> obligation. That’s why I’m committed to working with American Muslims to >>> ensure that they can fulfill zakat. … It is important for Western >>> countries to avoid impeding Muslim citizens from practicing religion as >>> they see fit. >>> >>> Obama was defending freedom of religion — not Islam as such. At one >>> point he said Western countries shouldn’t dictate what clothes a Muslim >>> woman should wear, for example. The video continues: >>> >>> Edited quote: And I consider it part of my responsibility as president >>> of the United States to fight against negative stereotypes of Islam >>> wherever they appear. >>> >>> That’s fair enough. But Obama went on to attack Muslim stereotypes of >>> the U.S. The video left that on the cutting room floor: >>> >>> Omitted quote: But that same principle must apply to Muslim perceptions >>> of America. (Applause.) Just as Muslims do not fit a crude stereotype, >>> America is not the crude stereotype of a self-interested empire. The United >>> States has been one of the greatest sources of progress that the world has >>> ever known. >>> >>> "Obama Declares America to be a Muslim Nation" >>> >>> Obama is never shown saying the U.S. is "a Muslim nation." Instead, we >>> see a clip from a June 28, 2007, keynote address >>> <http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=news.display_article&mode=C&NewsID=5454> >>> at >>> a "Call to Renewal" conference sponsored by the liberal Christian group >>> Sojourners. >>> >>> Edited quote: We are no longer a Christian nation. >>> >>> Full Quote: Whatever we once were, we are no longer a Christian nation >>> – at least, not just. We are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, a >>> Buddhist nation, and a Hindu nation, and a nation of nonbelievers. >>> >>> Obama was saying the U.S. is a nation of many faiths, but by dropping >>> the word "just," the edited version changes the quote’s meaning. That is >>> followed by more misleading editing of a clip from an April 6, 2009, press >>> conference <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIVd7YT0oWA> in Turkey: >>> >>> Edited quote: We do not consider ourselves a Christian nation. >>> >>> Full quote: And I’ve said before that one of the great strengths of the >>> United States is — although as I mentioned, we have a very large Christian >>> population, we do not consider ourselves a Christian nation or a Jewish >>> nation or a Muslim nation; we consider ourselves a nation of citizens who >>> are bound by ideals and a set of values. >>> >>> The video then shows three excerpts from the Cairo address and one from >>> the Turkish Parliament speech in which he described the impact Muslims and >>> Islam have made on the U.S. >>> >>> Obama (in Turkey): The United States has been enriched by Muslim >>> Americans. >>> >>> Obama (In Cairo): Since our founding, American Muslims have enriched >>> the United States. … Islam has always been a part of America’s story. … >>> There is a mosque in every state in our union, and over 1,200 mosques >>> within our borders. >>> >>> All that is accurate enough, but all it amounts to is paying respect to >>> the religion of others. Obama wasn’t embracing Islam as his own faith. >>> >>> The video then shows a clip from an interview Obama gave >>> <http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/transcript-of-the-interview-of-the-president-by-laura-haim-canal-plus-6-1-09/> >>> June >>> 1, 2009, with a French TV station: >>> >>> Obama: One of the points I want to make is, if you actually took the >>> number of Muslim Americans, we’d be one of the largest Muslim countries in >>> the world. >>> >>> Here, it is the president who is wrong — as we reported >>> <http://www.factcheck.org/2009/06/obama-us-one-of-the-largest-muslim-countries-not/> >>> a >>> couple of days after the interview. The U.S. does have perhaps 2 million >>> Muslims who attend mosques, and the total Muslim population of the U.S. has >>> been estimated at 6 million or 7 million. But that’s tiny compared with >>> countries such as Indonesia or Pakistan. We concluded that the U.S. >>> probably doesn’t even rank among the top 50 in terms of its Muslim >>> population. >>> >>> The section then ends by repeating the quote from Cairo where Obama >>> said, "Let there be no doubt, Islam is a part of America." >>> >>> The next section has no Obama quotes. It features Fox News pundits >>> criticizing the president for a brief "bow" to Saudi King Abdullah bin >>> Abdul Aziz Al-Saud during a visit in London April 1, 2009. The following >>> section shows an old photo of Obama wearing African garb, which the video >>> describes as "Traditional Muslim Dress," during a visit to family members >>> in Kenya as a young man. (The photo is being held up by his >>> half-brother Malik Obama >>> <http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=malik%20obama%20karel%20prinsloo&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi> >>> .) >>> >>> "Obama Visits A Mosque" >>> >>> In a section called "Obama Visits A Mosque" he is pictured touring the >>> famed Hagia Sophia in Istanbul, Turkey. The structure actually isn’t a >>> mosque any more: It was converted to a museum in 1935 >>> <http://www.hagiasophia.com/listingview.php?listingID=8>. This favorite >>> tourist destination >>> <http://www.worldbulletin.net/news_detail.php?id=39645> was originally >>> built as a Christian church by a Byzantine emperor, then converted to a >>> mosque after Istanbul fell to the Ottoman Turks in 1453. >>> >>> Another section is called "Obama Sides With Islam," but it’s just TV >>> reports from 2008 of Obama’s brief refusal to wear an American flag pin in >>> his lapel. How that equates to siding with Islam is not explained, but in >>> any case Obama reversed that decision early in his presidential campaign >>> and routinely wore a flag pin through the remainder of his campaign. >>> >>> That section concludes with another edited quote, this one from Obama’s >>> June >>> 4 speech in Cairo >>> <http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/Remarks-by-the-President-at-Cairo-University-6-04-09> >>> : >>> >>> Edited Quote: [L]et me speak as clearly and as plainly as I can. … >>> America is not — and never will be — at war with Islam. >>> >>> Full Quote: [L]et me speak as clearly and as plainly as I can about >>> some specific issues that I believe we must finally confront together. The >>> first issue that we have to confront is violent extremism in all of its >>> forms. In Ankara, I made clear that America is not — and never will be — at >>> war with Islam. (Applause.) We will, however, relentlessly confront violent >>> extremists who pose a grave threat to our security — because we reject the >>> same thing that people of all faiths reject: the killing of innocent men, >>> women, and children. And it is my first duty as president to protect the >>> American people. >>> >>> What the video’s creator cuts out is Obama’s denouncing "violent >>> extremists" before his mostly Muslim audience. >>> >>> "One of them?" >>> >>> The video concludes with footage of a hijacked jetliner striking the >>> World Trade Center’s South Tower on Sept. 11, 2001, followed by a graphic >>> with the words "I am one of them" attributed to "Barack Hussein Obama." But >>> as we noted at the outset, when the president said "I am one of them" to >>> the Turkish Parliament in April, he was referring to Americans with Muslim >>> relatives, not to terrorists. >>> >>> At the very end, Obama is shown saying "Thank You, and Eid-eh Shoma >>> Mobarak." Although that may have sounded to the video’s creator like some >>> sinister utterance in Arabic, Obama was actually speaking Farsi. And he was >>> saying "Happy New Year to you" >>> <http://www.farsinet.com/noruz/hajifiruz3.html> at the end of his taped TV >>> remarks to the Iranian people >>> <http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/VIDEOTAPED-REMARKS-BY-THE-PRESIDENT-IN-CELEBRATION-OF-NOWRUZ/> >>> on >>> Nowruz. >>> >>> *— by Justin Bank and Brooks Jackson* >>> Sources >>> >>> White House. "Remarks By President Obama To The Turkish Parliament >>> <http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/Remarks-By-President-Obama-To-The-Turkish-Parliament/>." >>> >>> 6 Apr 2009. >>> >>> White House. "Remarks By the President at Cairo University. >>> <http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/remarks-president-cairo-university-6-04-09>" >>> >>> 4 Jun 2009. >>> >>> Bellatoni, Christina. "Obama’s verbal slip fuels his critics >>> <http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/sep/07/obama-verbal-slip-fuels-his-critics/> >>> ." *Washington Times*. 7 Set 2008. >>> >>> Kristof, Nicholas, "Obama: Man of the World. >>> <http://select.nytimes.com/2007/03/06/opinion/06kristof.html?_r=4>" *New >>> York Times*. 6 Mar 2007. >>> >>> Djang, Jason, "A New Year, A New Beginning >>> <http://www.whitehouse.gov/nowruz/>," *The White House Blog*. 19 Mar >>> 2009. >>> >>> Jafarey, Ali A, "NowRuz – The Zarathustrian New Year >>> <http://www.zoroastrian.org/articles/nowruz.htm>," www.zoroastrian.org. >>> Accessed 4 Dec 2009. >>> >>> Obama, Barack, "Keynote Address – A Call to Renewal >>> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35sGJrWKcmY&feature=related>." 28 Jun >>> 2007. >>> >>> White House, "Press Conference >>> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIVd7YT0oWA>," 6 Apr 2009. >>> >>> White House, "Interview of the President by Laura Haim, Canal Plus >>> <http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/transcript-of-the-interview-of-the-president-by-laura-haim-canal-plus-6-1-09/>." >>> >>> Jun 1 2009. >>> "Obama visits mosque, Hagia Sophia >>> <http://www.worldbulletin.net/news_detail.php?id=39645>," *World >>> Bulletin*. 7 Apr 2009. >>> >>> On Tuesday, July 19, 2016 at 6:53:55 AM UTC-5, Travis wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *[image: Cnn0-U8WAAAe2sr]* >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> [image: Avast logo] <https://www.avast.com/antivirus> >>>> >>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >>>> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> __._,_.___ >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> Posted by: "Beowulf" <[email protected]> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> >>>> Visit Your Group >>>> <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/grendelreport/info;_ylc=X3oDMTJmcTZwMTgyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIwMTk0ODA2BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTMyMzY2NwRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzE0Njg4Nzc3MjQ-> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> [image: Yahoo! Groups] >>>> <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo;_ylc=X3oDMTJldmtuNzRhBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzIwMTk0ODA2BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTMyMzY2NwRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTQ2ODg3NzcyNQ--> >>>> >>>> • Privacy <https://info.yahoo.com/privacy/us/yahoo/groups/details.html> >>>> • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use >>>> <https://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/> >>>> >>>> __,_._,___ >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>> -- >>> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. >>> For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum >>> >>> * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ >>> * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. >>> * Read the latest breaking news, and more. >>> >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "PoliticalForum" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected] <javascript:>. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> brine >> http://brineb.blogspot.com/ >> >> -- >> -- >> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. >> For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum >> >> * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ >> * It's active and moderated. 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