But that is what is being imposed on them now.. On Nov 18, 5:37 pm, Hollywood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > jgg, > > That's not what I proposed, is it? > > On Nov 18, 4:07 pm, jgg1000a <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Some 2nd graders actual do, they have to miss out on recess to say the > > pledge... The vote is by showing up... > > > On Nov 18, 4:50 pm, Hollywood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > jgg, > > > > Fine, you say 6th graders are emotionally and intellectually mature > > > enough to understand the significance of the pledge? > > > Good, then let the kids take a vote by secret ballot as ti if THEY > > > want to say the pledge in class every morning and leave the adults out > > > of it. > > > > On Nov 18, 11:17 am, jgg1000a <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > From the article > > > > > >>> "We don't want to isolate children every day in their own > > > > >>> classroom, or make them feel they're different," said Principal > > > > >>> Michaela Martin. > > > > > That is exactly what they are doing by requiring kids to go elsewhere > > > > to recite the pledge... The simplest solution is to have the kids > > > > say it in the classroom with those kids who don't... It would be a > > > > lesson in being tolerant of another's opinion in the Public > > > > Square... > > > > > >>> Isn't it simply the adults scoring political points for one side or > > > > >>> the other by using the kids and this pledge? > > > > > Ah yes, the "kids are too dumb to understanding" straw man... As this > > > > question applies to six graders also in this case, will you say the > > > > same about a 12 year old??? FYI there are kids as young as 5 or 6 to > > > > whom understanding of "God" or "Pledge" IS grasped... Do not these > > > > kids have the right to say the Pledge??? Or is it the agenda of > > > > adults with a particular POV who wish to impose the habit of > > > > EXCLUDING GOD from the Public Square??? > > > > > As to the purpose of the Pledge -- to instill a sense of duty owed to > > > > one's country and community... And that IS a valid educational > > > > goal... As valid as the demand that families of same sex couples be > > > > used as role models... The real issue here is WHOSE agenda is > > > > incorporated into the curriculum, the nutscases of the Left does not > > > > GOD or patriotism in the agenda on the whole... And that IS A > > > > PROBLEM... > > > > > On Nov 18, 11:26 am, Hollywood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > jgg, > > > > > > Maybe the question should be why does it matter to any rational person > > > > > WHERE the pledge is said? > > > > > Has anyone questioned at what age a kid is old enough to understand > > > > > the significance of what the pledge means? Ask a 2rd grader to define > > > > > the word "pledge" at certain ages is not the "pledge" simply like a > > > > > "song" or "poem" they have memorized w/o understanding the meaning or > > > > > significance? What is the real point here? Isn't it simply the adults > > > > > scoring political points for one side or the other by using the kids > > > > > and this pledge? > > > > > > On Nov 18, 8:31 am, jgg1000a <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > That Hollywood is the question in this matter... Do not the > > > > > > students > > > > > > who wish to say the Pledge have the right to do it in their > > > > > > classroom? > > > > > > > On Nov 17, 6:36 pm, Hollywood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > jjg, > > > > > > > > Beats the fuck out of me. > > > > > > > > On Nov 17, 3:23 pm, jgg1000a <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > So why make the kids who want to say it go to the gym... > > > > > > > > > On Nov 17, 3:52 pm, Hollywood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > jgg, > > > > > > > > > > This is all really simple. Kid wants to say it fine, kid > > > > > > > > > dosen't want > > > > > > > > > to say it, fine. Someone is afraid a kid might be criticized > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > either saying it or not saying it, toogh shit. that's likfe. > > > > > > > > > You DO know that the phrase "under God" was not an original > > > > > > > > > part of > > > > > > > > > the pledge and was adding during the 1950"s "Oh my God the > > > > > > > > > commie's > > > > > > > > > are going to get us" phase, right? > > > > > > > > > > On Nov 17, 9:00 am, jgg1000a <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Here is a current Separation where Secularist are seeking > > > > > > > > > > to enforce > > > > > > > > > > their ban Religion from the Public Square... The > > > > > > > > > > question is not > > > > > > > > > > IF but when, where, and who... A side note, isn't having > > > > > > > > > > the kids > > > > > > > > > > who do not wish to say "under God" stay in the classrooms > > > > > > > > > > while the > > > > > > > > > > rest of the students go to the gym "isolating them"??? > > > > > > > > > > >http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/article/20081114/NEWS/81114027 > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Unlike other Pledge controversies, this one centers on > > > > > > > > > > >>> how and where schoolchildren say it, not whether they > > > > > > > > > > >>> should be allowed to. > > > > > > > > > > > In 1943, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that schoolchildren > > > > > > > > > > can opt out > > > > > > > > > > of reciting the pledge for religious reasons. > > > > > > > > > > > Sixty-one years later, the court said a California father > > > > > > > > > > couldn't > > > > > > > > > > challenge the Pledge of Allegiance, reversing a lower-court > > > > > > > > > > decision > > > > > > > > > > saying teacher-led Pledge recitals in public schools were > > > > > > > > > > unconstitutional. That case involved an atheist who didn't > > > > > > > > > > want his > > > > > > > > > > third-grader to have to listen to the phrase "under God." > > > > > > > > > > > But it didn't rule on the constitutionality of compulsory > > > > > > > > > > recitation. > > > > > > > > > > > The brouhaha in the Vermont school began in September, when > > > > > > > > > > parent Ted > > > > > > > > > > Tedesco began circulating petitions calling for its return > > > > > > > > > > as a daily > > > > > > > > > > practice in the 19th-century schoolhouse, which has 55 > > > > > > > > > > children in > > > > > > > > > > grades kindergarten through six. > > > > > > > > > > > School officials agreed to resume the pledge as a daily > > > > > > > > > > exercise, but > > > > > > > > > > not in the classroom. > > > > > > > > > > > "We don't want to isolate children every day in their own > > > > > > > > > > classroom, > > > > > > > > > > or make them feel they're different," said Principal > > > > > > > > > > Michaela Martin. > > > > > > > > > > > Instead, starting last week, a sixth grade student was > > > > > > > > > > assigned to go > > > > > > > > > > around to the four classrooms before classes started, > > > > > > > > > > gathering up > > > > > > > > > > anyone who wanted to say it and then walking them up creaky > > > > > > > > > > wooden > > > > > > > > > > steps to a second-floor gymnasium, where he led them in the > > > > > > > > > > pledge. > > > > > > > > > > > About half the students chose to participate, according to > > > > > > > > > > Martin.- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. 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