Independent? You've been watching to many movies Keith. "OIL" as a
"manufacturing and or resource" what is dependence?  Manufacturing is
no longer local business. Is each individual community independent and
self sufficient and or can we depend on our neighbors to keep a local
economy afloat and or maintain a local ecconomy can we survive without
an exterior component? "we" are nor "we" any longer we but "we" think
ourselves independent; don't "we" The "collective" authority(s) have
no conscience and or are self serving elite entities who have broken
the unity of The People. In reality our collective independence means
"we" no longer have the reciprocal ability to take care of our
independent asses because "collectively "we" have turned that over to
a monolithic manufacturing and governing authority who has bedazzled
us into believing "we" are independent and free thinking individuals.
"we" have become our own "American Idles" and  "we" have become the
butt of the biggest dumb blond joke ever! rant

false consciousness: http://www.answers.com/false%20consciousness

I've posted this several places around the forums

snip>
In his only book, Notes on the State of Virginia (1787), Jefferson
urged readers to resist the factory life of large European cities and
stay on the land. "Those who labour in the earth are the chosen
people
of God, if ever he had a chosen people, whose breasts he has made his
peculiar deposit for substantial and genuine virtue," Jefferson wrote
in the famous chapter called "Manufactures." Farmers intuit the laws
of God within the laws of nature, and so become virtuous, he
reasoned.
They are, by the nature of their work, resourceful, neighborly,
independent. They are the elemental caretakers of the world. Nor do
they succumb to the crude opinions of the masses. But the farmer is
free-thinking and inquisitive. The manufacturer, by contrast, is a
specialist, a cog, a wage slave. "Dependence," Jefferson concluded,
"begets subservience and venality, suffocates the germ of virtue, and
prepares fit tools for the designs of ambition." A manufacturer
cannot
be a citizen of a democracy, only a consumer within an oligarchy.

Four years later, Hamilton submitted to Congress his Report on
Manufactures, in which he dismissed Jefferson's agrarian vision in
favor of developing industry, division of labor, child labor,
protective tariffs, and prohibitions on many imported manufactured
goods. Today, fewer than 1 percent of Americans work on farms, and
many of those are huge, industrial farms that generate massive
amounts
of toxic by-products. That Jefferson's self-reliant farmer is so
unrecognizable to us today is evidence enough, should we need any,
that we have inherited Hamilton's America, not
Jefferson's.....................
more..............

The difference between Jefferson and Hamilton is the difference
between a version of Christianity based on Jesus' life and death and
Resurrection, and one based on his teachings. Or to put it another
way, it is a difference between where one locates basileia tou theou—
the kingdom of God. Is it, as Luke's gospel says, "in the midst of
you" (17:21), or is it, as John's gospel claimed, a reward saved for
the sweet hereafter? To live by Jesus' teachings would be to live
virtuously as stewards of the land; it would be to create an economy
based on compassion, cooperation, and conservation; it would be to
preserve the Creation as the kingdom of God. Jefferson was proposing
a
country of countrysides, a pastorale in which we would want to live;
Hamilton was giving us a nation of factories from i which we would
want
—perhaps in the end need—to be saved.

"Thomas" is the Aramaic word for twin. That Thomas Jefferson's
version
of Christianity actually found a twin gospel—one that included no
miracles, no claims of divinity, but only the teachings of Jesus—
hidden beneath an Egyptian cliff, and that this ancient gospel was
also recorded by a man known as Thomas, makes for a remarkable story.
Sometime near the end of the nineteenth century, two British
archaeologists, Bernard P. Grenfell and Arthur S. Hunt, were
searching
through an ancient trash heap along the Nile River, at a site known
as
Oxyrhynchus, when they found three small papyrus leaves. One of the
fragments read, "These are the [ ] sayings [ ] the living Jesus spoke
[ ] also called Thomas [ ]." New Testament scholars had long known
that there once existed a Gospel of Thomas because in the third
century Hippolytus denounced such a text in his Refutation of All
Heresies. And because Thomas's gospel ran afoul of the early Church
bishops, particularly Irenaeus, most copies of it were likely
destroyed.

In 1945, 150 miles upstream near another river town called Nag
Hammadi, an Egyptian farmer named Muhammad `Ali al-Samman was guiding
his camel beneath the nitrogen-rich cliffs that line the Nile,
collecting fertilizer for his fields. As he dug at the base of one
cliff, Muhammad `Ali found a sealed jug, obviously ancient. Fearing a
jinn but hoping for gold, he broke the jar open with his mattock. He
found neither. What fell out were twelve books (codices), made from
papyrus and bound in leather. Figuring the manuscripts might be worth
something, Muhammad `Ali gathered them up in his turban and carried
them home. According to New Testament scholar James M. Robinson, who
has pieced this whole story together, Muhammad 'Ali's mother used
some
of the leaves from the books to ignite their out-door clay oven.
Muhammad `Ali traded others for oranges and cigarettes.

Meanwhile, shortly after the discovery, Muhammad `Ali and his
brothers
hacked to death a man they claimed had killed their father six months
earlier. But when local police started poking around, asking about
the
murder, Muhammad `Ali didn't want to answer any further questions
about the codices. Since the manuscripts were written in Coptic, an
Egyptian variant of Greek, he hid one at the house of a Coptic
priest.
The priest, in turn, sent it to Cairo by way of his brother-in-law to
ascertain its value on the antiquities market. But someone tipped off
Egyptian authorities, who then threatened to take the brother-in-law
into custody and told him he could return home only if he sold the
codex to the Coptic Museum, which he promptly did.

Here a one-eyed bandit named Bahij `Ali enters the story. Cairo's
leading antiquities dealer, Cypriot Phocion J. Tano, had retained
Bahij `Ali to acquire as many of the codices as possible. But again,
the Egyptian government heard about Tano's acquisitions and pressed
him to entrust the manuscripts to the Coptic Museum for "safe
keeping." Tano spent much of the 1950s trying unsuccessfully to get
the codices back.

In 1952 the French scholar Henri-Charles Puech realized that a
tractate in Codex II contained sayings that matched the Oxyrhynchus
fragments. Less than sixty years after Grenfell and Hunt uncovered
hard evidence that a Gospel of Thomas did at one time exist, Puech
was
able to conclude that the entire text had been found.

When all of the remaining codices were accounted for, there turned
out
to he fifty-two separate tractates hidden at Nag Hammadi. How did
they
end up in this remote port town? In 325 C.E. the Roman Emperor
Constantine, newly converted to Christianity, called for a conference
of bishops in Nicaea. He charged them to come up with a short
document
that would unite Christians and eradicate heresy. The result was the
Nicene Creed. Forty-two years later, one of the drafters, Athanasius,
the bishop of Alexandria, issued a letter to Egyptian monks calling
for all heretical manuscripts to be destroyed.1 Scholars suspect that
monks at the St. Pachomius monastery, near Nag Hammadi, refused the
order, and instead buried the codices in a large jug.

Unfortunately, years of infighting among international scholars
stalled the publication of what came to be called the Nag Hammadi
library, and the European countries that controlled the publication
rights showed a remarkable indifference to the task. In the end it
was
an American, James M. Robinson, who obtained photographs of the
individual Coptic tractates and passed them on to a team of American
translators. As a result, the first complete edition of the Nag
Hammadi Library was published in English.

Perhaps because of this head start, much of the ground-breaking
scholar-ship devoted to the Gospel of Thomas has come from Americans:
Robinson himself, Stephen J. Patterson, John Dominic Crossan, Helmut
Koester, Ste-van Davies, and Elaine Pagels. But I have another
theory:
it was Thomas Jefferson's Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth that
prepared the Americans for what they would find in the ancient Gospel
of Thomas. In some Borgesian way, Jefferson's gospel has become a
predecessor to the Gospel of Thomas, though it was composed some
1,700
years later.

The similarities between the two gospels are remarkable, as much for
what they do not say as for what they do. Like Jefferson's gospel,
Thomas's ignores the virgin birth. Thomas's Jesus never performs a
miracle, never calls himself the Son of God, and never claims that he
will have to die for the sins of humankind. Instead he tells
parables,
he issues instructions, and, most alarmingly, he locates the kingdom
of God in that one place we might never look—right in front of
us.>end
snip

Peace,
Doc






On Mar 27, 8:37 am, Keith In Tampa <[email protected]> wrote:
> Doc,
>
> Either you or I are missing the point here, and I am not sure which one of
> us it is....
>
> Americans have always been an independent lot, which is something that our
> federal government is, and for years has been attempting to do away with.
>
> I am an American, and I am a survivor!  During most all of my adult life and
> professional career, I have never had a "job" where I worked for someone, I
> have always been able to go out and create something, and make something on
> my own.  I have always provided a good living for my family and I, and just
> as every other American, I have had a lot of roadblocks and obstacles come
> up ove the course of years.   I was not born with a silver spoon in my
> mouth!!  My parents were divorced and in essence, I came from a lower
> socio-economic middle class background.
>
> I live in "surburbia"; but rest assured, if it got so bad that there were
> food riots or food shortages, I can and will survive.  My 1/3rd acre lot
> here in Tampa is filled with fruit trees, figs, tomatoes, beans, and a host
> of other vegetables, and I am less than a quarter mile from Tampa Bay, which
> I grew up on, (I know the Bay well, and all of the fishing 'Honey Holes")
>
> As Hank Junior wrote years ago, "We can skin a deer, and run a trout
> line.....A country boy can survive";   and I ain't "country"!!
>
> My point being, is that Americans are survivors, and I damn sure don't need
> a humongous federal government to protect me or to provide for me!
>
> It used to be that all Americans had this same mindset, and I blame our
> government for taking away this mentality!!
>
> On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 9:15 AM, Doc Holliday 
> <[email protected]>wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hey and BTW lets send more Brad Pit fucking American Idol relief to
> > Africa instead of tractors and education. Is that not what's good for
> > the American agribusiness or what? Isn't dependence a wonderful
> > solution?
>
> > Peace,
> > Doc
>
> > On Mar 26, 8:55 pm, THE ANNOINTED ONE <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > Hey Bruce....
>
> > > One, I have never had a "master". I have never worked "for" anyone. I
> > > have been given assignments... how to carry them out and how long they
> > > took was always entirely my choice.
>
> > > B. There is no food shortage where I live nor is one possible. It,
> > > unlike money (your Master), does grow on trees, bushes and various
> > > plants, It is also walking all over the place. This all takes place 12
> > > months a year. Food is always in season here.
>
> > > 3. Did I mention it is all fresh.... no need for a processing plant.
>
> > > I certainly hope that your concerns for my safety and health have been
> > > answered. I do appreciate it.
>
> > > On Mar 26, 5:23 pm, bruce majors <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > poor moronic puppet
>
> > > > is that the best your masters have taught you in defending their
> > schemes
> > > > against exposure
>
> > > > they won't be feeding you during the food rationing
>
> > > > you'll be sent to the processing plant
>
> > > > On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 1:14 PM, THE ANNOINTED ONE <
> > [email protected]>wrote:
>
> > > > > Speaking of BLOVIATING>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> > > > > On Mar 26, 10:58 am, bruce majors <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > > > I don't think you tax predators and their flaks are even 50% yet.
>
> > > > > > But no matter.  You were dependent on being able to sell China and
> > others
> > > > > > promissary notes where you promised to parasitize and enslave
> > future
> > > > > > generations of tax slaves to pay back the debt on any money they
> > would
> > > > > loan
> > > > > > you
>
> > > > > > And they aren't buying any more
>
> > > > > > So your system of slavery is going to collapse soon anyway
>
> > > > > > Or are you some little cannon fodder dupe who believes the pseudo
> > class
> > > > > > analysis your Hitlers fed you?
>
> > > > > > No matter
>
> > > > > > you will be starving and in a food riot during the hyper-inflation
> > anyway
>
> > > > > > you don't sound smart enough to survive
>
> > > > > > On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 12:53 PM, Ray <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > > > >    Sure. Go for it, if you think your 5% of the population can
> > take the
> > > > > > > other 95% of us.
>
> > > > > > > Of course, you're probably not in the top 5% anyway, unless you
> > married
> > > > > > > well.
>
> > > > > > >  ------------------------------
> > > > > > > *From:* [email protected] [mailto:
> > > > > > > [email protected]] *On Behalf Of *bruce
> > majors
> > > > > > > *Sent:* Thursday, March 26, 2009 9:38 AM
> > > > > > > *To:* [email protected]
> > > > > > > *Subject:* Re: [The Political Spin Room] Re: Damn straight social
> > > > > medicine
> > > > > > > works
>
> > > > > > > so then there is no reason for we productive people to just have
> > you
> > > > > shot
> > > > > > > then
>
> > > > > > > since you have announced your intentions to rape, mug, and rob
>
> > > > > > > very good then
>
> > > > > > > your name is on the list for the revolution
>
> > > > > > > do you currently live off your mommie?  is she conscious btw?  do
> > you
> > > > > just
> > > > > > > cash her disability checks for her?
>
> > > > > > > On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 12:25 PM, Ray <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > >>   I have no sympathy for the very wealthy and could care less if
> > > > > they're
> > > > > > >> being
> > > > > > >> asked to ante up more money.
>
> > > > > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > >> From: [email protected]
> > <ThePoliticalSpinroom%
> > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > >> [mailto:[email protected]
> > <ThePoliticalSpinroom%
> > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>]
> > > > > > >> On Behalf Of gengelhorn
> > > > > > >> Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 8:41 AM
> > > > > > >> To: [email protected]<ThePoliticalSpinroom%
> > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > >> Subject: [The Political Spin Room] Re: Damn straight social
> > medicine
> > > > > works
>
> > > > > > >> I don't know if you read the part of my post about my uncle, but
> > the
> > > > > > >> ironic
> > > > > > >> thing is that his life was built upon the back of working class
> > > > > people,
> > > > > > >> namely my grandparents. My grandpa retired from schilling spice
> > > > > company in
> > > > > > >> the werehouse department. My grandma owned a beauty salon for 30
> > some
> > > > > > >> years. My uncle took advantage of this stable working class
> > familly
> > > > > > >> environement to become the success story he is. But now he
> > patronizes
> > > > > my
> > > > > > >> mothers side of the familly, my mother was the black sheep so to
> > > > > speak. We
> > > > > > >> have Christmas dinner with them every year and play act like we
> > like
> > > > > each
> > > > > > >> other. But the atmosphere is so phoney it makes me want to puke
> > > > > sometimes.
> > > > > > >> This is probably a big reason why I have little patience for the
> > very
> > > > > > >> wealthy. I'm every bit as intelligent as my two cousins, but
> > they got
> > > > > the
> > > > > > >> private school educations, bought and paid for by daddy, while I
> > > > > funded my
> > > > > > >> own city college education which I would have finished had I not
> > > > > > >> discovered
> > > > > > >> the stock market. I've been a cl
> > > > > > >> ose observer of both sides of the tracks in my time, and I feel
> > I have
> > > > > a
> > > > > > >> unique perspective.
> > > > > > >>  --- In [email protected]
> > <ThePoliticalSpinroom%
> > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > > > > >> "Ray" <rz...@...> wrote:
>
> > > > > > >> > The insurance companies are just a bad middleman that provide
> > no
> > > > > added
> > > > > > >> > value to the process.
>
> > > > > > >> > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > >> > From: [email protected]
> > <ThePoliticalSpinroom%
> > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > >> > [mailto:[email protected]
> > <ThePoliticalSpinroom%
> > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>]
> > > > > > >> On Behalf Of gengelhorn
> > > > > > >> > Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 7:51 AM
> > > > > > >> > To: [email protected]
> > <ThePoliticalSpinroom%
> > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > >> > Subject: Re: [The Political Spin Room] Damn straight social
> > medicine
> > > > > > >> > works
>
> > > > > > >> > My sisters familly is insured through Kaiser for around a
> > $1000 a
> > > > > > >> > month for four individuals. She hates the coverage she gets.
> > Doctors
> > > > > > >> > waste her time referring her to specialist after specialist at
> > the
> > > > > > >> > additional cost of 20 dollars per visit not to mention
> > personal time
> > > > > > >> > lost that could be used to either make money or just spend the
> > day
> > > > > in
> > > > > > >> > her garden. The reason her doctors give her the run-around is
> > to
> > > > > fund
> > > > > > >> > the system with more money on top of her monthy payment, and
> > to
> > > > > > >> > discourage her from getting care. Our system sucks unless your
> > very
> > > > > > >> > wealthy and can afford top of the line insurance like my
> > Uncles
> > > > > > >> > familly who are very wealthy. They're in Arizona taking in
> > Spring
> > > > > > >> > training, and doing some more business I'm sure, as I speak.
> > They
> > > > > > >> > spend practiaclly half the year traveling while the regular
> > working
> > > > > > >> > people are left to suffer most of the wet grey winter here in
> > > > > Oregon.
> > > > > > >> > My uncle is loaded, and I know he could afford more taxes. He
> > owns a
> > > > > > >> > brand new condo in down town Portlan d and a condo in Lake
> > Tahoe for
> > > > > > >> > good measure. All this in addition to a 20-30 acre farm in the
> > rich
> > > > > > >> > suburban community of Wilsonville. He used to live in a
> > mansion in a
> > > > > > >> > local rich area called Lake Oswego when he was in his prime
> > earning
>
> ...
>
> read more »
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