jgg, Fear-mongering by the LEFT????
Oh BTW, I lost track, what is the TERRORIST DANGER ALERT COLOR today. orange, yellow, hot pink? Pul-eeeeze, the right has been screaming for 8 years now "do what we say, give us what we want or the terorists will come and kill you all in your beds". On May 22, 12:59 pm, jgg1000a <[email protected]> wrote: > Very true... My point is the real reason often dictates what happens > after the fact... Hence after WWI we did the Marshall Plan and the > Russians did satellite states... > > In much of the opposition to the US in Iraq, one claim was American > Imperialism and lust after oil --- ie we wanted to steal Iraqi oil... > Clearly this is not going to be a result PRINCIPALLY due to that was > never an aim... Yet the fear-mongering was 24/7 by the Left... > > On May 22, 1:25 pm, Hollywood <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > jgg, > > > Your simply impossible. The WHY is determined by what the individual > > country thinks is in it's best interests at any given time. That's > > what I've been saying all along. > > There are almost always TWO reasons for what a country does. The REAL > > reason and thwe reason given to the public in order to gain their > > support or at least nullify resistence/opposition. > > > On May 22, 11:36 am, jgg1000a <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Once again > > > > At the end of the day WHY a great power acts matters at times... It > > > helps to determine WHAT they do AFTER the deed... Hence The > > > Marshall plan post WWII verses European Retributions demanded from > > > Germany post WWI... Or Russia after WWII... > > > > On May 22, 11:31 am, Hollywood <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > jgg, > > > > > SO? I'll ask you again, what is the point you are trying to make? > > > > > On May 22, 10:15 am, jgg1000a <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > You forget Pakistani ISI... > > > > > > On May 21, 5:41 pm, Hollywood <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > jgg, > > > > > > > So? The Russians invaded Afghanistan at one point, we did at another > > > > > > point and AQ did at yet another. What's your point here? And yes, > > > > > > all > > > > > > parties had their own resons for doing so. > > > > > > > On May 21, 11:55 am, jgg1000a <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Techinically, AQ invaded Iraq and Afghanistan... Unless you buy > > > > > > > into > > > > > > > the notion that their universial world governemnt self proclaimed > > > > > > > by > > > > > > > definition makes that impossible... > > > > > > > > On May 21, 11:35 am, Hollywood <[email protected]> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > jgg, > > > > > > > > > Uh yeah, they changed from killing Russians invading their land > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > killing Americans & Brits invading their land. Thought I had > > > > > > > > explained > > > > > > > > that. > > > > > > > > > On May 21, 9:54 am, jgg1000a <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Or maybe it depends on the circumstance... Like how OBL and > > > > > > > > > AQ > > > > > > > > > changed over the years... Another example is supporting > > > > > > > > > Stalin in > > > > > > > > > 1942-45 and fighting him from 1948-1953... Why the > > > > > > > > > change??? Simple > > > > > > > > > Stalin's actions post WWII... > > > > > > > > > > On May 21, 10:26 am, Hollywood <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > jgg, > > > > > > > > > > > WHAT arguement of "because we helped S.H. we are > > > > > > > > > > responsible for the > > > > > > > > > > end result?" Look at my posts, what I ACTUALLY said. Where > > > > > > > > > > did I say > > > > > > > > > > any such thing? > > > > > > > > > > OF course our political policy is based on what is convient > > > > > > > > > > for us at > > > > > > > > > > the moment. One decade Osama Bin Laden is a "deeply > > > > > > > > > > religious freedom > > > > > > > > > > fighter" another decade the same man is a "murdering Muslim > > > > > > > > > > terrorist". All depends on wheter he's killing Russians or > > > > > > > > > > Brits and > > > > > > > > > > Americans. Duuuuuuh. > > > > > > > > > > > On May 20, 10:31 am, jgg1000a <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Another of your straw-men Hollywood... Especially as I > > > > > > > > > > > never have > > > > > > > > > > > been of the attitude ""your either for us or against > > > > > > > > > > > us"... Neither > > > > > > > > > > > was Bush for that matter... Now the LW anti-war fringe > > > > > > > > > > > WAS and IS... > > > > > > > > > > > Hence Pelosi's new dance step... > > > > > > > > > > > > Now my point with Russia IS and was, geopolitical > > > > > > > > > > > alliance normally > > > > > > > > > > > are temporary based on convenience... As was our help > > > > > > > > > > > to Saddam, > > > > > > > > > > > our interest was not to let either Iraq nor Iran win... > > > > > > > > > > > And that > > > > > > > > > > > policy drove our actions... Second, the arms we > > > > > > > > > > > supplied helped us > > > > > > > > > > > and the Russians defeat Hitler --- the question here is > > > > > > > > > > > the refusal > > > > > > > > > > > of Russia to WITHDRAWAL to its pre war borders WAS a > > > > > > > > > > > consequence of > > > > > > > > > > > that win... This included incorporating the Baltic and > > > > > > > > > > > much of Poland > > > > > > > > > > > into USSR... > > > > > > > > > > > > ANd the argument used with with Saddam is BECAUSE we > > > > > > > > > > > helped him, WE > > > > > > > > > > > are responsible for the end result... Applying that > > > > > > > > > > > logic to WWII, > > > > > > > > > > > we were responsible for 40 years of repression in Eastern > > > > > > > > > > > Europe... > > > > > > > > > > > Now I reject that line of reasoning in the cases of > > > > > > > > > > > Russia during WWI > > > > > > > > > > > and Saddam post 1987... The issue here do you also > > > > > > > > > > > reject the > > > > > > > > > > > reasoning??? If so the issue of our limited help to > > > > > > > > > > > Saddam in the > > > > > > > > > > > 80's is a none issue... If you accept that logic, then > > > > > > > > > > > you logically > > > > > > > > > > > must hold we are guilty of repressing Eastern Europe for > > > > > > > > > > > 40 years... > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 20, 10:16 am, Hollywood > > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > jgg, > > > > > > > > > > > > > NOW you want to resign the black/white world of "your > > > > > > > > > > > > either for us or > > > > > > > > > > > > against us" George Bush? > > > > > > > > > > > > OH, we didn't want Russia it win against Germany, we > > > > > > > > > > > > only wanted to > > > > > > > > > > > > help them avoid defeat? When Russian tanks were > > > > > > > > > > > > rumbling thru the > > > > > > > > > > > > street of Berlin, hundreds of miles west of their > > > > > > > > > > > > borders, we were > > > > > > > > > > > > merely helping them avoid defeat and destruction? Read > > > > > > > > > > > > a history book, > > > > > > > > > > > > Russia help US to avoid defeat in Europe. > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 20, 8:55 am, jgg1000a <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes Hollywood, in the grown-up game of geopolitics > > > > > > > > > > > > > that is a > > > > > > > > > > > > > significant difference... In your Ivory Tower of > > > > > > > > > > > > > perfection, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ideology must remain pure by using only "moral" > > > > > > > > > > > > > methods... In WWII, > > > > > > > > > > > > > we allied with a Totalitarian tyrant not quite as > > > > > > > > > > > > > dangerous as Hitler, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stalin, to beat Hitler... We supplied him arms so he > > > > > > > > > > > > > would not be > > > > > > > > > > > > > defeated... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And Stalin used them to take over Eastern Europe > > > > > > > > > > > > > after the war... By > > > > > > > > > > > > > your standards, we are responsible for Stalin post > > > > > > > > > > > > > war, even though he > > > > > > > > > > > > > stopped being an ally in 1945... Problem is, that > > > > > > > > > > > > > is not how the > > > > > > > > > > > > > world works... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 19, 7:31 pm, Hollywood > > > > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jgg, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ohhh, we were not helping him to WIN, we were > > > > > > > > > > > > > > merely helping him to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > avoid DEFEAT. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, that makes all the difference in the world. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 19, 3:33 pm, jgg1000a <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Our support to SH in the 80's was limited to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > proventing his defeat by > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Iran. 95%+ of SH weapons came from the USSR or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its satellites... A > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > majority of the rest came from France and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Germany... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 19, 3:35 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a way, it was, for our support of SH during > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the Iraq-Iran war. We > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tend to eliminate those who illustrate our > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > political conscience. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Panama. Cuba. El Salvador. USSR. etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 19, 1:35 pm, Hollywood > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jgg, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, S.H's Iraq was NOT an immediate and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dangerous threat that needed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to be removed? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 19, 12:56 pm, jgg1000a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, the Iraqi War was NOT principally > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > about WMD (using your non > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > UNSC definition)... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 18, 5:52 am, VT VirtualTruth > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You really don;t read or pay attention to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the news do you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You fools said the same things about WMD's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that mistake only cost 4000 US lives and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > maimed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only 30,000. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When Republicans make mistakes Americans > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > die. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good track record you got going there. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 17, 10:17 am, Keith In Tampa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sean, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, this is really what it boils down > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to, as I suspicioned. What you are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > really saying is, "I Hate Bush, But I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't Know Why". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What transpired at Abu Gharib is not at > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > all what transpired with enhanced > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > interrogation techniques by the CIA. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Army has no mechanism other than > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the Army Field Manual to interrogate > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prisoners. Those individuals were > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prosecuted because they were outside of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Army regulations. > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. * Read the latest breaking news, and more. -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
