jjg, Oh? And when you clowns do it I suppose it's an ACCIDENT of some sort, as opossed to beling PLANNED? LMFAO!
You've gone in one post from "yet the fear-mongering was 24/7 by the left" to "some on the left do fear-mongering...." And you want to talk about the "broad brush" I am using? There are extremists on both sides? No shit! On May 26, 8:58 am, jgg1000a <[email protected]> wrote: > Yes Hollywood... Some on the Left often do fear-mongering in the > PLANNED demonization of their opponents... That you refuse to > confront that very human and partisan aspect of the Left is > telling... Also that you seek to characterize the Right by > > >>> "do what we say, give us what we want or the terorists will come and kill > >>> you all in your beds". > > is telling... Taking extremist statements and broad brush it to all > of the opposition IS part of the typical fear-monger done by extreme > wings of both sides... > > And the plain fact is on 9/12 there was real uncertainty as to the > scope and nature of the threat of AQ... Reasonable men in those > circumstances do change behavior and limit potential unknown > threats... That simple fact is normally ignored by the Left in this > country. > > On May 24, 9:35 pm, Hollywood <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > jgg, > > > Fear-mongering by the LEFT???? > > > Oh BTW, I lost track, what is the TERRORIST DANGER ALERT COLOR today. > > orange, yellow, hot pink? > > Pul-eeeeze, the right has been screaming for 8 years now "do what we > > say, give us what we want or the terorists will come and kill you all > > in your beds". > > > On May 22, 12:59 pm, jgg1000a <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Very true... My point is the real reason often dictates what happens > > > after the fact... Hence after WWI we did the Marshall Plan and the > > > Russians did satellite states... > > > > In much of the opposition to the US in Iraq, one claim was American > > > Imperialism and lust after oil --- ie we wanted to steal Iraqi oil... > > > Clearly this is not going to be a result PRINCIPALLY due to that was > > > never an aim... Yet the fear-mongering was 24/7 by the Left... > > > > On May 22, 1:25 pm, Hollywood <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > jgg, > > > > > Your simply impossible. The WHY is determined by what the individual > > > > country thinks is in it's best interests at any given time. That's > > > > what I've been saying all along. > > > > There are almost always TWO reasons for what a country does. The REAL > > > > reason and thwe reason given to the public in order to gain their > > > > support or at least nullify resistence/opposition. > > > > > On May 22, 11:36 am, jgg1000a <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Once again > > > > > > At the end of the day WHY a great power acts matters at times... It > > > > > helps to determine WHAT they do AFTER the deed... Hence The > > > > > Marshall plan post WWII verses European Retributions demanded from > > > > > Germany post WWI... Or Russia after WWII... > > > > > > On May 22, 11:31 am, Hollywood <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > jgg, > > > > > > > SO? I'll ask you again, what is the point you are trying to make? > > > > > > > On May 22, 10:15 am, jgg1000a <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > You forget Pakistani ISI... > > > > > > > > On May 21, 5:41 pm, Hollywood <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > jgg, > > > > > > > > > So? The Russians invaded Afghanistan at one point, we did at > > > > > > > > another > > > > > > > > point and AQ did at yet another. What's your point here? And > > > > > > > > yes, all > > > > > > > > parties had their own resons for doing so. > > > > > > > > > On May 21, 11:55 am, jgg1000a <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Techinically, AQ invaded Iraq and Afghanistan... Unless you > > > > > > > > > buy into > > > > > > > > > the notion that their universial world governemnt self > > > > > > > > > proclaimed by > > > > > > > > > definition makes that impossible... > > > > > > > > > > On May 21, 11:35 am, Hollywood <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > jgg, > > > > > > > > > > > Uh yeah, they changed from killing Russians invading their > > > > > > > > > > land to > > > > > > > > > > killing Americans & Brits invading their land. Thought I > > > > > > > > > > had explained > > > > > > > > > > that. > > > > > > > > > > > On May 21, 9:54 am, jgg1000a <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Or maybe it depends on the circumstance... Like how OBL > > > > > > > > > > > and AQ > > > > > > > > > > > changed over the years... Another example is supporting > > > > > > > > > > > Stalin in > > > > > > > > > > > 1942-45 and fighting him from 1948-1953... Why the > > > > > > > > > > > change??? Simple > > > > > > > > > > > Stalin's actions post WWII... > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 21, 10:26 am, Hollywood > > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > jgg, > > > > > > > > > > > > > WHAT arguement of "because we helped S.H. we are > > > > > > > > > > > > responsible for the > > > > > > > > > > > > end result?" Look at my posts, what I ACTUALLY said. > > > > > > > > > > > > Where did I say > > > > > > > > > > > > any such thing? > > > > > > > > > > > > OF course our political policy is based on what is > > > > > > > > > > > > convient for us at > > > > > > > > > > > > the moment. One decade Osama Bin Laden is a "deeply > > > > > > > > > > > > religious freedom > > > > > > > > > > > > fighter" another decade the same man is a "murdering > > > > > > > > > > > > Muslim > > > > > > > > > > > > terrorist". All depends on wheter he's killing Russians > > > > > > > > > > > > or Brits and > > > > > > > > > > > > Americans. Duuuuuuh. > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 20, 10:31 am, jgg1000a <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Another of your straw-men Hollywood... Especially as > > > > > > > > > > > > > I never have > > > > > > > > > > > > > been of the attitude ""your either for us or against > > > > > > > > > > > > > us"... Neither > > > > > > > > > > > > > was Bush for that matter... Now the LW anti-war > > > > > > > > > > > > > fringe WAS and IS... > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hence Pelosi's new dance step... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now my point with Russia IS and was, geopolitical > > > > > > > > > > > > > alliance normally > > > > > > > > > > > > > are temporary based on convenience... As was our > > > > > > > > > > > > > help to Saddam, > > > > > > > > > > > > > our interest was not to let either Iraq nor Iran > > > > > > > > > > > > > win... And that > > > > > > > > > > > > > policy drove our actions... Second, the arms we > > > > > > > > > > > > > supplied helped us > > > > > > > > > > > > > and the Russians defeat Hitler --- the question here > > > > > > > > > > > > > is the refusal > > > > > > > > > > > > > of Russia to WITHDRAWAL to its pre war borders WAS a > > > > > > > > > > > > > consequence of > > > > > > > > > > > > > that win... This included incorporating the Baltic > > > > > > > > > > > > > and much of Poland > > > > > > > > > > > > > into USSR... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ANd the argument used with with Saddam is BECAUSE we > > > > > > > > > > > > > helped him, WE > > > > > > > > > > > > > are responsible for the end result... Applying > > > > > > > > > > > > > that logic to WWII, > > > > > > > > > > > > > we were responsible for 40 years of repression in > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eastern Europe... > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now I reject that line of reasoning in the cases of > > > > > > > > > > > > > Russia during WWI > > > > > > > > > > > > > and Saddam post 1987... The issue here do you also > > > > > > > > > > > > > reject the > > > > > > > > > > > > > reasoning??? If so the issue of our limited help to > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saddam in the > > > > > > > > > > > > > 80's is a none issue... If you accept that logic, > > > > > > > > > > > > > then you logically > > > > > > > > > > > > > must hold we are guilty of repressing Eastern Europe > > > > > > > > > > > > > for 40 years... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 20, 10:16 am, Hollywood > > > > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jgg, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NOW you want to resign the black/white world of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "your either for us or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > against us" George Bush? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OH, we didn't want Russia it win against Germany, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we only wanted to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > help them avoid defeat? When Russian tanks were > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rumbling thru the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > street of Berlin, hundreds of miles west of their > > > > > > > > > > > > > > borders, we were > > > > > > > > > > > > > > merely helping them avoid defeat and destruction? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read a history book, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Russia help US to avoid defeat in Europe. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 20, 8:55 am, jgg1000a <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes Hollywood, in the grown-up game of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > geopolitics that is a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > significant difference... In your Ivory Tower > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of perfection, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ideology must remain pure by using only "moral" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > methods... In WWII, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we allied with a Totalitarian tyrant not quite as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dangerous as Hitler, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stalin, to beat Hitler... We supplied him arms > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so he would not be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > defeated... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And Stalin used them to take over Eastern Europe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > after the war... By > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your standards, we are responsible for Stalin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > post war, even though he > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > stopped being an ally in 1945... Problem is, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that is not how the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > world works... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 19, 7:31 pm, Hollywood > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jgg, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ohhh, we were not helping him to WIN, we were > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > merely helping him to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > avoid DEFEAT. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, that makes all the difference in the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > world. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 19, 3:33 pm, jgg1000a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Our support to SH in the 80's was limited to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > proventing his defeat by > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Iran. 95%+ of SH weapons came from the USSR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or its satellites... A > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > majority of the rest came from France and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Germany... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 19, 3:35 pm, rigsy03 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a way, it was, for our support of SH > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > during the Iraq-Iran war. We > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tend to eliminate those who illustrate our > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > political conscience. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Panama. Cuba. El Salvador. USSR. etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 19, 1:35 pm, Hollywood > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jgg, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, S.H's Iraq was NOT an immediate and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dangerous > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. * Read the latest breaking news, and more. -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
