It's symbolic in the Catholic Church, as the
original post was refering too. Most other Christian religions do not
partake of the of wafers & wine as symbols of the " Body & Blood "
concept.
Jesus of course was refering to his " body & blood " in the Spiritual
sense. As HE and the HOLY SPIRIT, WISDOM , SHE, were consecrated as
ONE . Therefore He was asking that we partake and be consecrated as
ONE with the Holy Spirit, Wisdom, She, by following His example. One
need only ASK! Ask - Seek - Knock . This symbolism also applies to
the Yoke around your neck sayings. The reference urges that one allow
the yoke of WISDOM, HOLY SPIRIT, the He/She......She/He be part of
your daily life now and beyond. It really all has to with what is
written in your heart & soul not in scripture. I graduated beyond the
bible many years ago. Why not just go to the source ?
************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
On Jun 21, 2:05 pm, Mark <[email protected]> wrote:
> why yes I have. Show me ANYWHERE in scripture where communion is identified
> or even hinted at as being merely "symbolic".
>
> Ever "hear" of "symbolism" ??? would have furthered your point.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Sage2 <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > EVER HERE OF SYMBOLLISM ? ? ?
>
> > *********************************************************************
>
> > On Jun 21, 11:50 am, THE ANNOINTED ONE <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > All the recent talk of religion on the board (christian and Moslem)
> > > has lead me back to the Church of Gonz....
>
> > > CHRISTIAN CANNIBALS
> > > An argument of why Christians are cannibals (and possibly vampires)
> > > from Christianity's own perspective
> > > by Jim Walker (an ex-cannibal)
> > > Originated: 07 January 2003
> > > Additions: 10 July 2006
>
> > > How many Christians realize that when they eat that wafer and drink
> > > the wine during communion service that they, in effect, practice
> > > cannibalism by the partaking in the eating of human flesh and blood?
> > > I certainly did not know that when I underwent communion in my
> > > religious days. It sounds so innocent and benign; "Communion" imparts
> > > the concept of sharing thoughts and feelings, or so I thought. Oh how
> > > the priests fooled me. They used other obscure terms too, like
> > > "Eucharist" and "Sacrament of the Last Supper." At no time did a
> > > priest or deacon explain to me that I would share in the communal
> > > eating of the human flesh and blood of Jesus.
> > > Cannibal: A person who eats the flesh of human beings.
> > > Since Jesus represents an actual human being, and I ate him, that made
> > > me a cannibal. And if you have ever undergone communion, then you too
> > > fall into that category.
> > > The Church tricked me and turned me into a cannibal!
> > > Not only did I drink blood and eat flesh, but they made me do it in
> > > front of a statue of a bloody corpse hanging by nails on two pieces of
> > > lumber, a representation of the human whom I had just eaten. (Imagine
> > > eating a hamburger in front of an image of a freshly slain cow.)
>
> > > The Church indoctrinates cannibalism at an early age. Here we have a
> > > priest putting pieces of raw human flesh into the mouths of children.
>
> > > While Popes and priests visit foreign countries, they also make sure
> > > to spread their cannibalism.
> > > Did this priest tell this child that she would eat human meat before
> > > putting a slice of it into her mouth?
> > > When I discovered the shocking realization that I had eaten human
> > > flesh, and drank human blood I felt like vomiting. Where in the world
> > > did this morbid practice begin, I wondered. I reread the Bible for
> > > clues. Could that explain the mystery of the empty tomb of Jesus (Luke
> > > 24:3)? Did the disciples eat him?
> > > Several Christians tried to console me by explaining that Communion
> > > only represents the symbolic eating of flesh, not the real thing (I
> > > later discovered that many Protestant Christians don't believe in the
> > > literal eating of Jesus, although some do). I felt relieved for awhile
> > > until other Christians told me otherwise (virtually all Catholics and
> > > Episcopalians believe in the literal interpretation). I began to do a
> > > bit of research for myself from the Catholic Church's own position. My
> > > stomach began to churn again as I discovered what communion and the
> > > Eucharist really means.
>
> > > Communion
> > > Communion, or "Holy Communion" as the Church officially calls it,
> > > means the actual reception of the Sacrament of the Eucharist. As the
> > > Catholic Encyclopedia puts it, "For real reception of the Blessed
> > > Eucharist it is required that the sacred species be received into the
> > > stomach. For this alone is the eating referred to by our Lord (John
> > > 6:58)."
> > > So you can't just put it in your mouth and spit it out. Oh no. You
> > > have to make sure you swallow it into your stomach!
> > > I looked up the Biblical chapter in John 6 and found this diabolical
> > > revelation:
> > > Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye
> > > eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life
> > > in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal
> > > life; and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is meat
> > > indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. (John 6:53-55)
> > > Egads, I thought. Jesus really wants them to EAT HIM! It would make
> > > perfect sense if the disciples did eat his dead corpse. Of course you
> > > wouldn't want to admit your cannibalism to the unbelievers and you'd
> > > have to explain the missing body to the authorities. You might say
> > > something like, "He is not here, but is risen..." (Luke 24:6). Yeah,
> > > right, that's the ticket.
>
> > > If the disciples did eat Christ, it may have looked something like
> > > this.
>
> > > Eucharist
> > > Eucharist describes the name given to the "Blessed Sacrament of the
> > > Altar," (older religions also used blood sacrifices to an altar. Some
> > > used virgin humans, bulls, lambs, etc.). The Christians use it to mean
> > > an actual sacrifice by Jesus where they truly believe the bread and
> > > wine turns into the actual corporal flesh and blood of Jesus Christ.
> > > Christians also use other titles such as, "Table of the Lord" (Mensa
> > > Domini) or the morbid term, "Lord's Body" (Corpus Domini).
> > > From the Catholic Church and as far back as the pronouncement from the
> > > Council of Trent, the quintessence of the Eucharist means that "the
> > > Body and Blood of the God-man ARE truly, really, and substantially
> > > present."
>
> > > Here we have a community of Christians lining up to eat and swallow
> > > the uncooked flesh of Jesus in what Christianity calls the "Blessed
> > > sacrament of the Altar" or better known as the 'Eucharist' during a
> > > ceremony of communion. Looks innocent, doesn't it? Not at all the
> > > image of cannibalism as usually depicted in folklore.
> > > The Catechism of the Catholic Church (1992), stresses the centrality
> > > of the Eucharist to Catholic life:
> > > The Eucharist is 'the source and summit of the Christian life.'
> > The
> > > other sacraments, and indeed all ecclesiastical ministries and works
> > > of the apostolate, are bound up with the Eucharist and are oriented
> > > toward it. For in the Eucharist is contained the whole spiritual good
> > > of the Church, namely Christ himself, or Pasch.
> > > The Catechism of the Catholic Church, No. 1324
> > > So if you practice Catholicism, and wish to remain a Catholic, you
> > > must honor the connubiality of the Eucharist. Not only does it mean
> > > eating the flesh and blood of Christ as a sacrifice, it means a union
> > > with the gore:
> > > In the Eucharist the sacrifice of Christ becomes also the
> > sacrifice
> > > of the members of his Body. The lives of the faithful, their praise,
> > > sufferings, prayer, and work, are united with those of Christ and with
> > > his total offering, and so acquire a new value. Christ's sacrifice
> > > present on the altar makes it possible for all generations of
> > > Christians to be untied with his offering.
> > > The Catechism of the Catholic Church, No. 1368
> > > Moreover, you must never deny the priesthoods power of consecrating
> > > the flesh and blood:
> > > If any one shall say that in the New Testament there is no
> > visible
> > > and external priesthood nor any power of consecrating and offering the
> > > Body and Blood of the Lord, as well as of remitting and retaining
> > > sins, but merely the office and bare ministry of preaching the Gospel,
> > > let him be anathema.
> > > Council of Trent, No. 961
> > > Note: anathema means cursed, a malediction on your soul.
> > > So how does bread and wine turn into actual flesh, you may ask? The
> > > Christians believe it comes from the concept of transubstantiation.
>
> > > Transubstantiation
> > > According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, Hildebert of Tours (~1079)
> > > probably first used the term transubstantiation and the Church later
> > > adopted the practice in the Fourth Council of the Lateran (1215) and
> > > the Council of Lyons (1274), and finally, the Council of Trent
> > > (1545-1563).
> > > Transubstantiation basically means, the transition or conversion of
> > > one thing into another in some aspect of being. Turning water into
> > > wine gives one example of transubstantiation, and turning bread into
> > > flesh and wine into blood gives another. Transubstantiation, however,
> > > doesn't just describe a simple conversion of one thing into another
> > > but a substantial conversion (conversio substantialis).
> > > Transubstantiation differs from every other substantial conversion in
> > > this, that only the substance gets converted into another.
> > > [Advice to the Church: Before converting the wine into blood, why not
> > > also transubstantiate water into wine? No need for expensive grape
> > > orchards, harvesting, or processing because Jesus would do the entire
> > > conversion for you for free. That way, you could give (or better yet,
> > > sell) bottles of wine to your congregations (you could call it "Jesus
> > > Juice"). You could establish Catholic wineries around the world! Just
> > > imagine the new converts you would get and, oh how your coffer cups
> > > would overflow. Just a thought.]
> > > In the Eucharist, two extremes of conversions occur, namely the bread
> > > and wine as the terminus a quo, and the Body and Blood of Christ as
> > > the terminus ad quem (before and after). In other words, the substance
> > > of the bread and wine departs in order to make room for the Body and
> > > Blood of Christ.
> > > Transubstantiation, as a conversion of the total substance, is the
> > > transition of the entire substance of the bread and wine into the Body
> > > and Blood of Christ, comes as the express doctrine of the Church
> > > (Council of Trent, Sess. XIII, can. ii).
>
> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
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