No, according to the church a transformation takes place. It IS the body and blood of good ole JC. Try your arguement with the Pope. I find no ambiguity or wiggle room in the quoted words of the man himself, if you do, point them out.
If mere symbology, quote me chapter and verse that allows this thought. Or you can admit that you simply choose to accept a "mans" interpretation of the act and statement made by your saviour to be solely symbolic. To do this you would have to allow the same innocent latitude to all other (non-christian) religions to do the same with their texts. On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 5:32 PM, Sage2 <[email protected]> wrote: > > Mark, > > The point is Jesus was symbolically referring to the > Spiritual self. Otherwise he would have said " bite me " so that you > may partake of both my body & blood at once. That might have been > viewed as cannibalism, so He offered a symbolic gesture. Please refer > to original response ! > > > > **************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** > > On Jun 21, 6:30 pm, Mark <[email protected]> wrote: > > Show me the ambiguity in this..... > > > > God sent Christ to die and deliver us from our sins. (Romans 5.8.) Before > > His death, He commanded His disciples to partake of the supper in His > > remembrance. (Matthew 26.26-28; Mark 14.22-25; Luke 22.14-19.) *“And as > they > > were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it > to > > the disciples, and said, 'Take, eat; this is My body.'* > > > > ** > > You believe or you do not. > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 12:51 PM, Sage2 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > It's symbolic in the Catholic Church, as the > > > original post was refering too. Most other Christian religions do not > > > partake of the of wafers & wine as symbols of the " Body & Blood " > > > concept. > > > Jesus of course was refering to his " body & blood " in the Spiritual > > > sense. As HE and the HOLY SPIRIT, WISDOM , SHE, were consecrated as > > > ONE . Therefore He was asking that we partake and be consecrated as > > > ONE with the Holy Spirit, Wisdom, She, by following His example. One > > > need only ASK! Ask - Seek - Knock . This symbolism also applies to > > > the Yoke around your neck sayings. The reference urges that one allow > > > the yoke of WISDOM, HOLY SPIRIT, the He/She......She/He be part of > > > your daily life now and beyond. It really all has to with what is > > > written in your heart & soul not in scripture. I graduated beyond the > > > bible many years ago. Why not just go to the source ? > > > > > > ************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************ > > > > > On Jun 21, 2:05 pm, Mark <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > why yes I have. Show me ANYWHERE in scripture where communion is > > > identified > > > > or even hinted at as being merely "symbolic". > > > > > > Ever "hear" of "symbolism" ??? would have furthered your point. > > > > > > On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Sage2 <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > EVER HERE OF SYMBOLLISM ? ? ? > > > > > > > > ********************************************************************* > > > > > > > On Jun 21, 11:50 am, THE ANNOINTED ONE <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > All the recent talk of religion on the board (christian and > Moslem) > > > > > > has lead me back to the Church of Gonz.... > > > > > > > > CHRISTIAN CANNIBALS > > > > > > An argument of why Christians are cannibals (and possibly > vampires) > > > > > > from Christianity's own perspective > > > > > > by Jim Walker (an ex-cannibal) > > > > > > Originated: 07 January 2003 > > > > > > Additions: 10 July 2006 > > > > > > > > How many Christians realize that when they eat that wafer and > drink > > > > > > the wine during communion service that they, in effect, practice > > > > > > cannibalism by the partaking in the eating of human flesh and > blood? > > > > > > I certainly did not know that when I underwent communion in my > > > > > > religious days. It sounds so innocent and benign; "Communion" > imparts > > > > > > the concept of sharing thoughts and feelings, or so I thought. Oh > how > > > > > > the priests fooled me. They used other obscure terms too, like > > > > > > "Eucharist" and "Sacrament of the Last Supper." At no time did a > > > > > > priest or deacon explain to me that I would share in the communal > > > > > > eating of the human flesh and blood of Jesus. > > > > > > Cannibal: A person who eats the flesh of human beings. > > > > > > Since Jesus represents an actual human being, and I ate him, that > > > made > > > > > > me a cannibal. And if you have ever undergone communion, then you > too > > > > > > fall into that category. > > > > > > The Church tricked me and turned me into a cannibal! > > > > > > Not only did I drink blood and eat flesh, but they made me do it > in > > > > > > front of a statue of a bloody corpse hanging by nails on two > pieces > > > of > > > > > > lumber, a representation of the human whom I had just eaten. > (Imagine > > > > > > eating a hamburger in front of an image of a freshly slain cow.) > > > > > > > > The Church indoctrinates cannibalism at an early age. Here we > have a > > > > > > priest putting pieces of raw human flesh into the mouths of > children. > > > > > > > > While Popes and priests visit foreign countries, they also make > sure > > > > > > to spread their cannibalism. > > > > > > Did this priest tell this child that she would eat human meat > before > > > > > > putting a slice of it into her mouth? > > > > > > When I discovered the shocking realization that I had eaten human > > > > > > flesh, and drank human blood I felt like vomiting. Where in the > world > > > > > > did this morbid practice begin, I wondered. I reread the Bible > for > > > > > > clues. Could that explain the mystery of the empty tomb of Jesus > > > (Luke > > > > > > 24:3)? Did the disciples eat him? > > > > > > Several Christians tried to console me by explaining that > Communion > > > > > > only represents the symbolic eating of flesh, not the real thing > (I > > > > > > later discovered that many Protestant Christians don't believe in > the > > > > > > literal eating of Jesus, although some do). I felt relieved for > > > awhile > > > > > > until other Christians told me otherwise (virtually all Catholics > and > > > > > > Episcopalians believe in the literal interpretation). I began to > do a > > > > > > bit of research for myself from the Catholic Church's own > position. > > > My > > > > > > stomach began to churn again as I discovered what communion and > the > > > > > > Eucharist really means. > > > > > > > > Communion > > > > > > Communion, or "Holy Communion" as the Church officially calls it, > > > > > > means the actual reception of the Sacrament of the Eucharist. As > the > > > > > > Catholic Encyclopedia puts it, "For real reception of the Blessed > > > > > > Eucharist it is required that the sacred species be received into > the > > > > > > stomach. For this alone is the eating referred to by our Lord > (John > > > > > > 6:58)." > > > > > > So you can't just put it in your mouth and spit it out. Oh no. > You > > > > > > have to make sure you swallow it into your stomach! > > > > > > I looked up the Biblical chapter in John 6 and found this > diabolical > > > > > > revelation: > > > > > > Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except > ye > > > > > > eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no > life > > > > > > in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath > eternal > > > > > > life; and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is > meat > > > > > > indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. (John 6:53-55) > > > > > > Egads, I thought. Jesus really wants them to EAT HIM! It would > make > > > > > > perfect sense if the disciples did eat his dead corpse. Of course > you > > > > > > wouldn't want to admit your cannibalism to the unbelievers and > you'd > > > > > > have to explain the missing body to the authorities. You might > say > > > > > > something like, "He is not here, but is risen..." (Luke 24:6). > Yeah, > > > > > > right, that's the ticket. > > > > > > > > If the disciples did eat Christ, it may have looked something > like > > > > > > this. > > > > > > > > Eucharist > > > > > > Eucharist describes the name given to the "Blessed Sacrament of > the > > > > > > Altar," (older religions also used blood sacrifices to an altar. > Some > > > > > > used virgin humans, bulls, lambs, etc.). The Christians use it to > > > mean > > > > > > an actual sacrifice by Jesus where they truly believe the bread > and > > > > > > wine turns into the actual corporal flesh and blood of Jesus > Christ. > > > > > > Christians also use other titles such as, "Table of the Lord" > (Mensa > > > > > > Domini) or the morbid term, "Lord's Body" (Corpus Domini). > > > > > > From the Catholic Church and as far back as the pronouncement > from > > > the > > > > > > Council of Trent, the quintessence of the Eucharist means that > "the > > > > > > Body and Blood of the God-man ARE truly, really, and > substantially > > > > > > present." > > > > > > > > Here we have a community of Christians lining up to eat and > swallow > > > > > > the uncooked flesh of Jesus in what Christianity calls the > "Blessed > > > > > > sacrament of the Altar" or better known as the 'Eucharist' during > a > > > > > > ceremony of communion. Looks innocent, doesn't it? Not at all the > > > > > > image of cannibalism as usually depicted in folklore. > > > > > > The Catechism of the Catholic Church (1992), stresses the > centrality > > > > > > of the Eucharist to Catholic life: > > > > > > The Eucharist is 'the source and summit of the Christian > > > life.' > > > > > The > > > > > > other sacraments, and indeed all ecclesiastical ministries and > works > > > > > > of the apostolate, are bound up with the Eucharist and are > oriented > > > > > > toward it. For in the Eucharist is contained the whole spiritual > good > > > > > > of the Church, namely Christ himself, or Pasch. > > > > > > The Catechism of the Catholic Church, No. 1324 > > > > > > So if you practice Catholicism, and wish to remain a Catholic, > you > > > > > > must honor the connubiality of the Eucharist. Not only does it > mean > > > > > > eating the flesh and blood of Christ as a sacrifice, it means a > union > > > > > > with the gore: > > > > > > In the Eucharist the sacrifice of Christ becomes also the > > > > > sacrifice > > > > > > of the members of his Body. The lives of the faithful, their > praise, > > > > > > sufferings, prayer, and work, are united with those of Christ and > > > with > > > > > > his total offering, and so acquire a new value. Christ's > sacrifice > > > > > > present on the altar makes it possible for all generations of > > > > > > Christians to be untied with his offering. > > > > > > The Catechism of the Catholic Church, No. 1368 > > > > > > Moreover, you must never deny the priesthoods power of > consecrating > > > > > > the flesh and blood: > > > > > > If any one shall say that in the New Testament there is > no > > > > > visible > > > > > > and external priesthood nor any power of consecrating and > offering > > > the > > > > > > Body and Blood of the Lord, as well as of remitting and retaining > > > > > > sins, but merely the office and bare ministry of preaching the > > > Gospel, > > > > ... > > > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > -- Mark M. Kahle, , www.filacoffee.com --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. 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