Show me the ambiguity in this..... God sent Christ to die and deliver us from our sins. (Romans 5.8.) Before His death, He commanded His disciples to partake of the supper in His remembrance. (Matthew 26.26-28; Mark 14.22-25; Luke 22.14-19.) *“And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, 'Take, eat; this is My body.'*
** You believe or you do not. On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 12:51 PM, Sage2 <[email protected]> wrote: > > It's symbolic in the Catholic Church, as the > original post was refering too. Most other Christian religions do not > partake of the of wafers & wine as symbols of the " Body & Blood " > concept. > Jesus of course was refering to his " body & blood " in the Spiritual > sense. As HE and the HOLY SPIRIT, WISDOM , SHE, were consecrated as > ONE . Therefore He was asking that we partake and be consecrated as > ONE with the Holy Spirit, Wisdom, She, by following His example. One > need only ASK! Ask - Seek - Knock . This symbolism also applies to > the Yoke around your neck sayings. The reference urges that one allow > the yoke of WISDOM, HOLY SPIRIT, the He/She......She/He be part of > your daily life now and beyond. It really all has to with what is > written in your heart & soul not in scripture. I graduated beyond the > bible many years ago. Why not just go to the source ? > > > > ************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************ > > On Jun 21, 2:05 pm, Mark <[email protected]> wrote: > > why yes I have. Show me ANYWHERE in scripture where communion is > identified > > or even hinted at as being merely "symbolic". > > > > Ever "hear" of "symbolism" ??? would have furthered your point. > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Sage2 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > EVER HERE OF SYMBOLLISM ? ? ? > > > > > ********************************************************************* > > > > > On Jun 21, 11:50 am, THE ANNOINTED ONE <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > All the recent talk of religion on the board (christian and Moslem) > > > > has lead me back to the Church of Gonz.... > > > > > > CHRISTIAN CANNIBALS > > > > An argument of why Christians are cannibals (and possibly vampires) > > > > from Christianity's own perspective > > > > by Jim Walker (an ex-cannibal) > > > > Originated: 07 January 2003 > > > > Additions: 10 July 2006 > > > > > > How many Christians realize that when they eat that wafer and drink > > > > the wine during communion service that they, in effect, practice > > > > cannibalism by the partaking in the eating of human flesh and blood? > > > > I certainly did not know that when I underwent communion in my > > > > religious days. It sounds so innocent and benign; "Communion" imparts > > > > the concept of sharing thoughts and feelings, or so I thought. Oh how > > > > the priests fooled me. They used other obscure terms too, like > > > > "Eucharist" and "Sacrament of the Last Supper." At no time did a > > > > priest or deacon explain to me that I would share in the communal > > > > eating of the human flesh and blood of Jesus. > > > > Cannibal: A person who eats the flesh of human beings. > > > > Since Jesus represents an actual human being, and I ate him, that > made > > > > me a cannibal. And if you have ever undergone communion, then you too > > > > fall into that category. > > > > The Church tricked me and turned me into a cannibal! > > > > Not only did I drink blood and eat flesh, but they made me do it in > > > > front of a statue of a bloody corpse hanging by nails on two pieces > of > > > > lumber, a representation of the human whom I had just eaten. (Imagine > > > > eating a hamburger in front of an image of a freshly slain cow.) > > > > > > The Church indoctrinates cannibalism at an early age. Here we have a > > > > priest putting pieces of raw human flesh into the mouths of children. > > > > > > While Popes and priests visit foreign countries, they also make sure > > > > to spread their cannibalism. > > > > Did this priest tell this child that she would eat human meat before > > > > putting a slice of it into her mouth? > > > > When I discovered the shocking realization that I had eaten human > > > > flesh, and drank human blood I felt like vomiting. Where in the world > > > > did this morbid practice begin, I wondered. I reread the Bible for > > > > clues. Could that explain the mystery of the empty tomb of Jesus > (Luke > > > > 24:3)? Did the disciples eat him? > > > > Several Christians tried to console me by explaining that Communion > > > > only represents the symbolic eating of flesh, not the real thing (I > > > > later discovered that many Protestant Christians don't believe in the > > > > literal eating of Jesus, although some do). I felt relieved for > awhile > > > > until other Christians told me otherwise (virtually all Catholics and > > > > Episcopalians believe in the literal interpretation). I began to do a > > > > bit of research for myself from the Catholic Church's own position. > My > > > > stomach began to churn again as I discovered what communion and the > > > > Eucharist really means. > > > > > > Communion > > > > Communion, or "Holy Communion" as the Church officially calls it, > > > > means the actual reception of the Sacrament of the Eucharist. As the > > > > Catholic Encyclopedia puts it, "For real reception of the Blessed > > > > Eucharist it is required that the sacred species be received into the > > > > stomach. For this alone is the eating referred to by our Lord (John > > > > 6:58)." > > > > So you can't just put it in your mouth and spit it out. Oh no. You > > > > have to make sure you swallow it into your stomach! > > > > I looked up the Biblical chapter in John 6 and found this diabolical > > > > revelation: > > > > Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye > > > > eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life > > > > in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal > > > > life; and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is meat > > > > indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. (John 6:53-55) > > > > Egads, I thought. Jesus really wants them to EAT HIM! It would make > > > > perfect sense if the disciples did eat his dead corpse. Of course you > > > > wouldn't want to admit your cannibalism to the unbelievers and you'd > > > > have to explain the missing body to the authorities. You might say > > > > something like, "He is not here, but is risen..." (Luke 24:6). Yeah, > > > > right, that's the ticket. > > > > > > If the disciples did eat Christ, it may have looked something like > > > > this. > > > > > > Eucharist > > > > Eucharist describes the name given to the "Blessed Sacrament of the > > > > Altar," (older religions also used blood sacrifices to an altar. Some > > > > used virgin humans, bulls, lambs, etc.). The Christians use it to > mean > > > > an actual sacrifice by Jesus where they truly believe the bread and > > > > wine turns into the actual corporal flesh and blood of Jesus Christ. > > > > Christians also use other titles such as, "Table of the Lord" (Mensa > > > > Domini) or the morbid term, "Lord's Body" (Corpus Domini). > > > > From the Catholic Church and as far back as the pronouncement from > the > > > > Council of Trent, the quintessence of the Eucharist means that "the > > > > Body and Blood of the God-man ARE truly, really, and substantially > > > > present." > > > > > > Here we have a community of Christians lining up to eat and swallow > > > > the uncooked flesh of Jesus in what Christianity calls the "Blessed > > > > sacrament of the Altar" or better known as the 'Eucharist' during a > > > > ceremony of communion. Looks innocent, doesn't it? Not at all the > > > > image of cannibalism as usually depicted in folklore. > > > > The Catechism of the Catholic Church (1992), stresses the centrality > > > > of the Eucharist to Catholic life: > > > > The Eucharist is 'the source and summit of the Christian > life.' > > > The > > > > other sacraments, and indeed all ecclesiastical ministries and works > > > > of the apostolate, are bound up with the Eucharist and are oriented > > > > toward it. For in the Eucharist is contained the whole spiritual good > > > > of the Church, namely Christ himself, or Pasch. > > > > The Catechism of the Catholic Church, No. 1324 > > > > So if you practice Catholicism, and wish to remain a Catholic, you > > > > must honor the connubiality of the Eucharist. Not only does it mean > > > > eating the flesh and blood of Christ as a sacrifice, it means a union > > > > with the gore: > > > > In the Eucharist the sacrifice of Christ becomes also the > > > sacrifice > > > > of the members of his Body. The lives of the faithful, their praise, > > > > sufferings, prayer, and work, are united with those of Christ and > with > > > > his total offering, and so acquire a new value. Christ's sacrifice > > > > present on the altar makes it possible for all generations of > > > > Christians to be untied with his offering. > > > > The Catechism of the Catholic Church, No. 1368 > > > > Moreover, you must never deny the priesthoods power of consecrating > > > > the flesh and blood: > > > > If any one shall say that in the New Testament there is no > > > visible > > > > and external priesthood nor any power of consecrating and offering > the > > > > Body and Blood of the Lord, as well as of remitting and retaining > > > > sins, but merely the office and bare ministry of preaching the > Gospel, > > > > let him be anathema. > > > > Council of Trent, No. 961 > > > > Note: anathema means cursed, a malediction on your soul. > > > > So how does bread and wine turn into actual flesh, you may ask? The > > > > Christians believe it comes from the concept of transubstantiation. > > > > > > Transubstantiation > > > > According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, Hildebert of Tours (~1079) > > > > probably first used the term transubstantiation and the Church later > > > > adopted the practice in the Fourth Council of the Lateran (1215) and > > > > the Council of Lyons (1274), and finally, the Council of Trent > > > > (1545-1563). > > > > Transubstantiation basically means, the transition or conversion of > > > > one thing into another in some aspect of being. Turning water into > > > > wine gives one example of transubstantiation, and turning bread into > > > > flesh and wine into blood gives another. Transubstantiation, however, > > > > doesn't just describe a simple conversion of one thing into another > > > > but a substantial conversion (conversio substantialis). > > > > Transubstantiation differs from every other substantial conversion in > > > > this, that only the substance gets converted into another. > > > > [Advice to the Church: Before converting the wine into blood, why not > > > > also transubstantiate water into wine? No need for expensive grape > > > > orchards, harvesting, or processing because Jesus would do the entire > > > > conversion for you for free. That way, you could give (or better yet, > > > > sell) bottles of wine to your congregations (you could call it "Jesus > > > > Juice"). You could establish Catholic wineries around the world! Just > > > > imagine the new converts you would get and, oh how your coffer cups > > > > would overflow. Just a thought.] > > > > In the Eucharist, two extremes of conversions occur, namely the bread > > > > and wine as the terminus a quo, and the Body and Blood of Christ as > > > > the terminus ad quem (before and after). In other words, the > substance > > > > of the bread and wine departs in order to make room for the Body and > > > > Blood of Christ. > > > > Transubstantiation, as a conversion of the total substance, is the > > > > transition of the entire substance of the bread and wine into the > Body > > > > and Blood of Christ, comes as the express doctrine of the Church > > > > (Council of Trent, Sess. XIII, can. ii). > > > > ... > > > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > -- Mark M. Kahle, , www.filacoffee.com --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. 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