Islam does the same. In fact if you were ever a Muslim, you are considered an apostate if you ever leave the faith and should be killed. The Christian believers don't do that.
Frederick The Moderate wrote: > Keith you're a very unusal man and a very unusual Christian. > I think you would have to agree that most Western Christians are of > the opinion that their beliefs are the only "correct" ones and > everyone else is screwed. Virtually all Western Christian churches > (with the exception of UCC and Unity) teach this in absolute terms. > > On Jun 29, 4:46 pm, Keith In Tampa <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Fred, >> >> Hmmmmmm.......Good question.....Sort of...... >> >> I don't know that "judge" is the correct adjective, or at least the >> adjective that I would utilize. Because I disagree with political >> ideologies, or lifestyles does not necessarily mean that I have "judged" >> them in one sense, but in another sense, I guess that could be correct. >> >> I believe in the Holy Trinity. This is the foundation of my Christianity, >> and so in essence, my belief in Jesus Christ as my saviour is not totally >> the key to eternal salvation. >> >> I don't so much subscribe to "my God" being superior than "their God"; or >> that my Saviour is more superior than "their Prophet". I do have some >> issues with Islam, which I have delved into numerous times, and believe that >> Islam must reform as a whole; (and as Judaism and Christianity have reformed >> on numerous occasions) before it can be taken as a legitimate religion in >> Western Culture. >> >> On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 6:54 PM, Frederick The Moderate < >> >> >> >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >> >>> Keith: "One of our core beliefs is, "Judge Not, Lest Ye Be >>> Judged"....." >>> >>> So based on your statement above, Keith, you do not judge liberals? >>> Gays? Muslims? >>> You do not think that Christians will go to a better place than >>> Muslims after dying? >>> You do not believe that ONLY accepting Jesus as your lord and Saviour >>> will get you into heaven? >>> If all of the above are correct, you would be an unusual Christian (in >>> the West, anyway). >>> >>> I was going to attend Methodist Seminary (among the least "fire & >>> brimstone" of the Christian Churches) after gaining my bachelors. The >>> old saying is "No one ever comes out of seminary with the same beliefs >>> they went in with". With me, that happened before I even got there. So >>> instead, I went into business. >>> >>> Rabbit, I served in the Office of Naval Intelligence during the >>> presidency of the greatest Republican President of my lifetime - >>> Ronald Reagan. >>> >>> On Jun 29, 8:58 am, Keith In Tampa <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 10:56 AM, Frederick The Moderate < >>>> >>> > [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> - Nowadays, this means that 99.9% of everything God creates, will be >>>> >>> kept >>> >>>> alive forever, for the purpose of crueltym because they are not just >>>> >>> like >>> >>>> "Christians". >>>> >>>> - Jesus did not want this new brand of Judiasm rammed down people's >>>> throats but rather, growth similar to that of Buddhism - based solely >>>> >>> on >>> >>>> attraction. >>>> >>>> - There is much more about Western Christian churches with which I >>>> dissent. I respect people right to believe as they wish so I won't try >>>> >>> to >>> >>>> tell you or anyone else that you're following the "wrong path" because >>>> >>> it is >>> >>>> simply not for me to judge. Which is another difference between me and >>>> traditional Christians. >>>> >>>> ============ >>>> >>>> Obviously, the seminary that you attended must not have been founded in >>>> Catholicism, nor could it have been based on any of the numerous >>>> >>> Protestant >>> >>>> denominations. Your post also makes me wonder when the last time it was, >>>> that you might have strolled into a Catholic or Protestant Church? One >>>> >>> of >>> >>>> our core beliefs is, "Judge Not, Lest Ye Be Judged"..... >>>> >>>>> On Jun 29, 5:45 am, "Mrs. Rabbit" <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Ok, I know I'll be sorry, but please do tell what Jesus *really* >>>>>> thought. :D >>>>>> >>>>>> Seminary? Really now? >>>>>> >>>>> At one time, I thought about becoming a pastor. So I got my degree in >>>>> theology (you need a Masters in Divinity to be ordained by most >>>>> churches). The focus of my studies was ancient Hebrew & Aramaic >>>>> customs and idioms. >>>>> >>>>> So what Jesus really taught? Just my opinion but there is MUCH to back >>>>> it up. And it wasn't everything I believe, just a few points that were >>>>> in direct contrast with most (Western) Christian churches that seem to >>>>> ignore well, a LOT. >>>>> 1. Jesus did not come to start a new religion. He came to open the >>>>> Jewish belief in only one God, up to everyone else. >>>>> 2. The Jews had forgotten God's message and turned religion into >>>>> exactly what Travis and Richard talk about it being nowadays: a venue >>>>> of exclusivity, arrogance and politics. Jesus' message was for the >>>>> Jews to quit being "holier than thou", stop judging others and just do >>>>> their best to live their own lives as spiritually as possible. >>>>> Nowadays, this means that 99.9% of everything God creates, will be >>>>> kept alive forever, for the purpose of crueltym because they are not >>>>> just like "Christians". Swell. Wrong though. >>>>> 3. Jesus did his best to make it clear: Whomever you would be quickest >>>>> to judge (Samaritans, women, gays, Muslims etc) should be the person >>>>> you make it your quest to learn to appreciate and if possible, even >>>>> love. Later that came to mean Hate & Judge eveyone who isn't part of >>>>> the Jesus Club. >>>>> 4. Modern Christians are exactly like the Sadduccess and Pharisees >>>>> (the good ol' folks who crucified him) of Jesus' day. Very political >>>>> and self-righteous. Self-appointed to determine which parts of the >>>>> Bible should be taken literally, which should be interpreted and how, >>>>> and why you are going straight to hell if you disagree with them on >>>>> any of this. >>>>> 5. There is no Satan or Hell. >>>>> 6. Revelation was just another piece of coded Apocrypha describing the >>>>> current events of the times just after the crucifixion. >>>>> 7. Jesus did not want this new brand of Judiasm rammed down people's >>>>> throats but rather, growth similar to that of Buddhism - based solely >>>>> on attraction. >>>>> >>>>> There is much more about Western Christian churches with which I >>>>> dissent. I respect people right to believe as they wish so I won't try >>>>> to tell you or anyone else that you're following the "wrong path" >>>>> because it is simply not for me to judge. Which is another difference >>>>> between me and traditional Christians. They want to tell others all >>>>> about their brand of religion without ever listening with an open mind >>>>> or respecting somenone else's. >>>>> All that being said, The Bible and especially the teachings of Jesus >>>>> are my spiritual guide and way. >>>>> >>>>>> On Jun 29, 1:00 am, Frederick The Moderate >>>>>> >>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I was almost banned from seminary for my radical beliefs about >>>>>>> Christianity and what Jesus really taught. Didn't matter. By the >>>>>>> >>> time >>> >>>>>>> I got my bachelor's, I'd decided that I loved learning the origins >>>>>>> >>> and >>> >>>>>>> histories of various religions but no longer subscribed to the >>>>>>> exclusivity most believed in. >>>>>>> I have a poster from my (soon to be published!) book, I made which >>>>>>> kinda parodies those types of beliefs. I'll send it to the group >>>>>>> >>> with >>> >>>>>>> the hopes it doesn't offend as many people at "The Right to bear >>>>>>> >>> Arms" >>> >>>>>>> did. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Jun 28, 9:49 pm, Perplexed <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I agree completely Richard. I'm one of those "spiritual but not >>>>>>>> religious" folks, closer to Buddhism than Christianity in my >>>>>>>> >>> beliefs. >>> >>>>>>>> But I detest what organized religion has done to religion. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 8:50 pm, RichardForbes <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I am not agnostic, but I sure am agnostic about attending >>>>>>>>> >>> church. >>> >>>>> I >>>>> >>>>>>>>> learned the necessary lessons lon ago and have no use for being >>>>>>>>> preached to or sold a bill of goods. Most religious leaders >>>>>>>>> >>> are on >>> >>>>> a >>>>> >>>>>>>>> level with used car salesmen and politicians. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 2:55 pm, studio <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 12:53 am, Frederick The Moderate >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Someone posted that there is some pretty extreme prejudice >>>>>>>>>>> >>> and >>> >>>>> hatred >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> here. True? Not True? What are your thoughts? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> You found one of them already. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> But to address your question; >>>>>>>>>> "What do you think of Islam"? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'm rather neutral in my assessment of Islam, much the way I >>>>>>>>>> >>> am >>> >>>>> with >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> any other religion, >>>>>>>>>> except when they start preaching it to me, or corner >>>>>>>>>> >>> me...then I >>> >>>>> let >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 'em have it. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I had a Muslim Arab girlfriend at one point, and a couple >>>>>>>>>> acquaintances, so I know the pros and cons. >>>>>>>>>> There are good people from all walks of life regardless >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> what-where- >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> when-how they come >>>>>>>>>> by it, I don't concentrate on the bad so much unless it >>>>>>>>>> >>> actually >>> >>>>> needs >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> redress. >>>>>>>>>> Of course there are the bad apples also, but Islam has no >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> exclusive >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> rights to bad teachings. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Personally, I'm agnostic, but I don't make a point of >>>>>>>>>> >>> preaching >>> >>>>> it. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Let sleeping dogs lay so to speak. >>>>>>>>>> If someone believes in a God, fine. >>>>>>>>>> But don't be laying your God in my lap...as if you could >>>>>>>>>> >>> anyway.- >>> >>>>> Hide quoted text - >>>>> >>>>>>>> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>> >>>>>> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - >>>>>> >>>> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - >>>> >> - Show quoted text - >> > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. 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