> In fact if you were ever a Muslim, you are considered an apostate if you ever > leave the faith and should be killed.
Hmmmmmmm........wouldn't that be Hussein Obama???? On Jun 30, 12:23 am, dick thompson <[email protected]> wrote: > Islam does the same. In fact if you were ever a Muslim, you are > considered an apostate if you ever leave the faith and should be > killed. The Christian believers don't do that. > > Frederick The Moderate wrote: > > Keith you're a very unusal man and a very unusual Christian. > > I think you would have to agree that most Western Christians are of > > the opinion that their beliefs are the only "correct" ones and > > everyone else is screwed. Virtually all Western Christian churches > > (with the exception of UCC and Unity) teach this in absolute terms. > > > On Jun 29, 4:46 pm, Keith In Tampa <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> Fred, > > >> Hmmmmmm.......Good question.....Sort of...... > > >> I don't know that "judge" is the correct adjective, or at least the > >> adjective that I would utilize. Because I disagree with political > >> ideologies, or lifestyles does not necessarily mean that I have "judged" > >> them in one sense, but in another sense, I guess that could be correct. > > >> I believe in the Holy Trinity. This is the foundation of my Christianity, > >> and so in essence, my belief in Jesus Christ as my saviour is not totally > >> the key to eternal salvation. > > >> I don't so much subscribe to "my God" being superior than "their God"; or > >> that my Saviour is more superior than "their Prophet". I do have some > >> issues with Islam, which I have delved into numerous times, and believe > >> that > >> Islam must reform as a whole; (and as Judaism and Christianity have > >> reformed > >> on numerous occasions) before it can be taken as a legitimate religion in > >> Western Culture. > > >> On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 6:54 PM, Frederick The Moderate < > > >> [email protected]> wrote: > > >>> Keith: "One of our core beliefs is, "Judge Not, Lest Ye Be > >>> Judged"....." > > >>> So based on your statement above, Keith, you do not judge liberals? > >>> Gays? Muslims? > >>> You do not think that Christians will go to a better place than > >>> Muslims after dying? > >>> You do not believe that ONLY accepting Jesus as your lord and Saviour > >>> will get you into heaven? > >>> If all of the above are correct, you would be an unusual Christian (in > >>> the West, anyway). > > >>> I was going to attend Methodist Seminary (among the least "fire & > >>> brimstone" of the Christian Churches) after gaining my bachelors. The > >>> old saying is "No one ever comes out of seminary with the same beliefs > >>> they went in with". With me, that happened before I even got there. So > >>> instead, I went into business. > > >>> Rabbit, I served in the Office of Naval Intelligence during the > >>> presidency of the greatest Republican President of my lifetime - > >>> Ronald Reagan. > > >>> On Jun 29, 8:58 am, Keith In Tampa <[email protected]> wrote: > > >>>> On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 10:56 AM, Frederick The Moderate < > > >>> > [email protected]> wrote: > > >>>> - Nowadays, this means that 99.9% of everything God creates, will be > > >>> kept > > >>>> alive forever, for the purpose of crueltym because they are not just > > >>> like > > >>>> "Christians". > > >>>> - Jesus did not want this new brand of Judiasm rammed down people's > >>>> throats but rather, growth similar to that of Buddhism - based solely > > >>> on > > >>>> attraction. > > >>>> - There is much more about Western Christian churches with which I > >>>> dissent. I respect people right to believe as they wish so I won't try > > >>> to > > >>>> tell you or anyone else that you're following the "wrong path" because > > >>> it is > > >>>> simply not for me to judge. Which is another difference between me and > >>>> traditional Christians. > > >>>> ============ > > >>>> Obviously, the seminary that you attended must not have been founded in > >>>> Catholicism, nor could it have been based on any of the numerous > > >>> Protestant > > >>>> denominations. Your post also makes me wonder when the last time it was, > >>>> that you might have strolled into a Catholic or Protestant Church? One > > >>> of > > >>>> our core beliefs is, "Judge Not, Lest Ye Be Judged"..... > > >>>>> On Jun 29, 5:45 am, "Mrs. Rabbit" <[email protected]> wrote: > > >>>>>> Ok, I know I'll be sorry, but please do tell what Jesus *really* > >>>>>> thought. :D > > >>>>>> Seminary? Really now? > > >>>>> At one time, I thought about becoming a pastor. So I got my degree in > >>>>> theology (you need a Masters in Divinity to be ordained by most > >>>>> churches). The focus of my studies was ancient Hebrew & Aramaic > >>>>> customs and idioms. > > >>>>> So what Jesus really taught? Just my opinion but there is MUCH to back > >>>>> it up. And it wasn't everything I believe, just a few points that were > >>>>> in direct contrast with most (Western) Christian churches that seem to > >>>>> ignore well, a LOT. > >>>>> 1. Jesus did not come to start a new religion. He came to open the > >>>>> Jewish belief in only one God, up to everyone else. > >>>>> 2. The Jews had forgotten God's message and turned religion into > >>>>> exactly what Travis and Richard talk about it being nowadays: a venue > >>>>> of exclusivity, arrogance and politics. Jesus' message was for the > >>>>> Jews to quit being "holier than thou", stop judging others and just do > >>>>> their best to live their own lives as spiritually as possible. > >>>>> Nowadays, this means that 99.9% of everything God creates, will be > >>>>> kept alive forever, for the purpose of crueltym because they are not > >>>>> just like "Christians". Swell. Wrong though. > >>>>> 3. Jesus did his best to make it clear: Whomever you would be quickest > >>>>> to judge (Samaritans, women, gays, Muslims etc) should be the person > >>>>> you make it your quest to learn to appreciate and if possible, even > >>>>> love. Later that came to mean Hate & Judge eveyone who isn't part of > >>>>> the Jesus Club. > >>>>> 4. Modern Christians are exactly like the Sadduccess and Pharisees > >>>>> (the good ol' folks who crucified him) of Jesus' day. Very political > >>>>> and self-righteous. Self-appointed to determine which parts of the > >>>>> Bible should be taken literally, which should be interpreted and how, > >>>>> and why you are going straight to hell if you disagree with them on > >>>>> any of this. > >>>>> 5. There is no Satan or Hell. > >>>>> 6. Revelation was just another piece of coded Apocrypha describing the > >>>>> current events of the times just after the crucifixion. > >>>>> 7. Jesus did not want this new brand of Judiasm rammed down people's > >>>>> throats but rather, growth similar to that of Buddhism - based solely > >>>>> on attraction. > > >>>>> There is much more about Western Christian churches with which I > >>>>> dissent. I respect people right to believe as they wish so I won't try > >>>>> to tell you or anyone else that you're following the "wrong path" > >>>>> because it is simply not for me to judge. Which is another difference > >>>>> between me and traditional Christians. They want to tell others all > >>>>> about their brand of religion without ever listening with an open mind > >>>>> or respecting somenone else's. > >>>>> All that being said, The Bible and especially the teachings of Jesus > >>>>> are my spiritual guide and way. > > >>>>>> On Jun 29, 1:00 am, Frederick The Moderate > > >>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: > > >>>>>>> I was almost banned from seminary for my radical beliefs about > >>>>>>> Christianity and what Jesus really taught. Didn't matter. By the > > >>> time > > >>>>>>> I got my bachelor's, I'd decided that I loved learning the origins > > >>> and > > >>>>>>> histories of various religions but no longer subscribed to the > >>>>>>> exclusivity most believed in. > >>>>>>> I have a poster from my (soon to be published!) book, I made which > >>>>>>> kinda parodies those types of beliefs. I'll send it to the group > > >>> with > > >>>>>>> the hopes it doesn't offend as many people at "The Right to bear > > >>> Arms" > > >>>>>>> did. > > >>>>>>> On Jun 28, 9:49 pm, Perplexed <[email protected]> wrote: > > >>>>>>>> I agree completely Richard. I'm one of those "spiritual but not > >>>>>>>> religious" folks, closer to Buddhism than Christianity in my > > >>> beliefs. > > >>>>>>>> But I detest what organized religion has done to religion. > > >>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 8:50 pm, RichardForbes <[email protected]> > >>>>>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>>>>> I am not agnostic, but I sure am agnostic about attending > > >>> church. > > >>>>> I > > >>>>>>>>> learned the necessary lessons lon ago and have no use for being > >>>>>>>>> preached to or sold a bill of goods. Most religious leaders > > >>> are on > > >>>>> a > > >>>>>>>>> level with used car salesmen and politicians. > > >>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 2:55 pm, studio <[email protected]> wrote: > > >>>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 12:53 am, Frederick The Moderate > > >>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: > > >>>>>>>>>>> Someone posted that there is some pretty extreme prejudice > > >>> and > > >>>>> hatred > > >>>>>>>>>>> here. True? Not True? What are your > > ... > > read more » --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. * Read the latest breaking news, and more. -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
