Thanks Holly-- I rest my case On Aug 6, 8:59 am, Hollywood <[email protected]> wrote: > Lone, > > Oh yeah, Bruce will shout out in a heart-beat that he is no > conservative, HE is a Libertarian. > > On Aug 5, 5:30 pm, "\"Lone Wolf\"" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Ha--The only people more desperate to blame the failure > > of capitalism on socialism than conservatives are Libertarians--are > > you one of them? > > > You read too much Lee Rockwell and Von Mises--two of the biggest > > economic idiots in the history of mankind. There are no stocks and > > bonds--no stock exchange under socialist socio-economic relations. > > Conservatives and Libertarians are forever attempting to potray > > socialism as a rework, a reformed capitalism. > > > Socialism requires the complete ownership of all industry and natural > > resources by the workers and the abolishment of all nations > > states......ie no more America, China etc. (to call Socialists > > statists displays poor understanding) > > > If you are going to criticize something at least criticize what it > > is.ie what socialist are advocating, instead of basing your inane > > comments on Lew Rockwell disinformation. > > > On Aug 6, 7:30 am, Bruce Majors <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > yea yea yea > > > > then socialism is capitalism where workers can buy stocks,i.e., it is > > > capitalism > > > > and Obama is a statist, which is what all socialists are > > > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 5:29 PM, "Lone Wolf" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Why Obama is no socialist > > > > > by Steven Strauss > > > > > Obama's no socialist. Socialism is a not-for-profit economic system > > > > under workers' control, whose purpose is to meet the needs of the > > > > majority of people. Everyone shares the abundance they produce. > > > > Decisions are made democratically, through genuine participation from > > > > the producers. > > > > > The new U.S. president would be the first to agree this is not what he > > > > stands for. In this time of economic crisis, Obama's job is to rescue > > > > the profit system. He calls for "more competitive" U.S. corporations. > > > > In other words, autoworkers and others should give up even more of > > > > their pensions, wages, health insurance and retiree benefits, in order > > > > to be "competitive" with anti-union, low-wage companies at home and > > > > abroad. > > > > > Obama's economists find billions of taxpayer's dollars to bail out the > > > > bankers and brokers, but have no plan to provide universal employment > > > > and retirement security. His healthcare plan is the same as today's — > > > > profit-based for the welfare of insurance companies. He is silent on > > > > the racist U.S. justice system, and on Mumia Abu-Jamal, the radical > > > > Black journalist framed for murder during the Reagan era. > > > > > Obama wants to leave 50,000 U.S. troops in oil-rich Iraq and expand > > > > military operations in Afghanistan and Pakistan. > > > > > What socialism is not. Socialist-haters and skeptics typically > > > > proclaim that: • Socialism is big government — by definition > > > > inefficient and invasive. • Socialism's aim is to "redistribute" the > > > > wealth, by stealing from the rich and giving to the poor. • Socialism > > > > leads to widespread loss of democracy and personal liberty. • > > > > Socialism is impossible because it's against "me-first" human nature. > > > > > This is not what socialists stand for. > > > > > The big government myth. Capitalist politicians, whether Republican or > > > > Democrat, have no problem with "big government." Their trillion-dollar > > > > war budgets and bank bailouts are as big as it gets. > > > > > The real question isn't size. It's whose side is the government on? > > > > > A socialist government takes the side of working people, and stands > > > > with everyone assaulted by racism, sexism, xenophobia, homophobia, and > > > > bigotry of any kind. > > > > > A socialist government's job is to create full employment by building > > > > excellent schools and hospitals, safe and efficient public > > > > transportation, affordable and comfortable housing, and inventive > > > > cultural and recreational facilities. In a socialist society, there > > > > would be no corporations destroying the environment for profit. Labor > > > > saving technology would reduce the workday, not the standard of > > > > living. > > > > > A socialist government, because it does not depend on profit to exist, > > > > would never turn off anybody's gas and electricity, tolerate > > > > homelessness and hunger, or deny medical care for lack of insurance. > > > > > This advanced way of life has not yet been realized anywhere > > > > > Redistribution of wealth. All social wealth is created by working > > > > people. But capitalists own the giant factories, mines, farms, banks, > > > > and transportation and communication systems. So after wageworkers > > > > produce cars, food, buildings, and computers, owners take possession > > > > of them, sell the products on the market, and pocket the income. > > > > > The owners and CEOs then pay workers as little as they can get away > > > > with. What they call their legitimate profit is produced entirely by > > > > the workers. > > > > > According to the AFL-CIO, Bank of America's "CEO Kenneth Lewis > > > > collected nearly $10 million in 2008, more than 400 times the average > > > > amount a bank teller is paid each year." Socialists call for returning > > > > this stolen wealth to the producers. > > > > > Thus, it is the capitalist class that "redistributes" the wealth, away > > > > from those who produced it, to the parasites who didn't. > > > > > The question of liberty. Capitalism is built on the denial of liberty > > > > to the majority of human beings — working people. This begins in the > > > > workplace itself, where wage earners are told what to do by a > > > > management they never voted for, and which certainly does not > > > > represent their interests. > > > > > This profit-driven economic dictatorship is the reason bosses have > > > > employed barely-paid six-year-olds to work nearly 20 hours a day. It's > > > > why we have forced overtime, speedup, and poverty wages for women, > > > > people of color and immigrants. It's why bosses dump their toxic > > > > wastes in rivers and lakes, just so many toilet bowls to them. > > > > > In a socialist economy, the working class will determine, from the > > > > workplace on up, what needs to be produced and how to fairly > > > > distribute it. Economic plans will be proposed, debated, carried out, > > > > critiqued, and improved. > > > > > This is economic democracy. Had it been in place, the levees in New > > > > Orleans would have been repaired long before Hurricane Katrina hit! > > > > > It was in place in the early days of the Russian Revolution, when > > > > workers' councils (soviets) made decisions about working conditions. > > > > Cuba has one of the world's most advanced healthcare systems precisely > > > > because the Cuban majority demand that their medical needs be met, and > > > > no private healthcare profiteers can stand in the way. > > > > > Is human nature innately selfish? Capitalist apologists say that > > > > socialism can't work because it flies in the face of human nature. > > > > People are inherently greedy, selfish, and downright nasty. > > > > > To think that human beings are biologically incapable of creating a > > > > world without wars, poverty, and bigotry must make one wonder where > > > > such genes came from. Perhaps we are all mutants, since > > > > anthropologists have long pointed out that the earliest of human > > > > societies were communal, generally peaceful, and shared all they had. > > > > > Try asking yourself this question: Am I basically hungry for money, > > > > self-indulgent, and insensitive to the suffering of others? Or do I > > > > want friendship, loving relationships, and to contribute to the common > > > > good? > > > > > Money lust and egotism appear normal only in the world of big > > > > business. Outside that, U.S. workers are exceptionally generous, > > > > giving what little they have to a variety of "good causes." People > > > > march to raise funds for cancer and AIDS. Neighbors help each other > > > > through earthquakes, hurricanes and tornadoes. > > > > > This is called solidarity. And that's what is inherent in human > > > > nature, emerging spontaneously every day, everywhere. Socialism > > > > thrives on it. As pioneer socialist feminist Clara Fraser said in the > > > > dedication of her book Revolution She Wrote, "the act of fighting > > > > injustice is full of hope and joy when it is viewed as a slice of an > > > > innate historical tradition, an ancient reaching out for universal > > > > human fulfillment." > > > > > Americans display solidarity with each stand against U.S. wars. > > > > Solidarity built the unions, and fueled victories in the civil rights, > > > > feminist, and gay rights movements. > > > > > Imagine a world where all children can discover and develop their > > > > talents, where free and critical thinking is applauded, where all the > > > > sick receive humane care, where the planet and all its inhabitants are > > > > not choked, but thrive. > > > > > That's what socialists stand for. And what we fight for.- Hide quoted > > > > text - > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
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