that US politicians would use our wealth on those animals says tons about their intellect
On Dec 7, 9:07 am, jgg1000a <[email protected]> wrote: > Read history before you babble about it.... First one Afghani tribe > IS Mongol -- the Hazara.... Second, two decendants of Jenghiz Khan > used Afghanistan as their home base to conquer India and Iran... > Now how could they do that without being FROM Afghanistan... So yes, > some mongols occupied and stayed in Afghanistan after 1221... As I > said read history.... > > http://www.questia.com/library/history/asian-history/south-asia/afgha... > > >>> Jenghiz Khan (c.1220) and Timur (late 14th cent.) were subsequent > >>> conquerors of renown. Babur, a descendant of Timur, used Kabul as the > >>> base for his conquest of India and the establishment of the Mughal empire > >>> in the 16th cent. In the 18th cent. the Persian Nadir Shah extended his > >>> rule to N of the Hindu Kush. After his death (1747) his lieutenant, Ahmad > >>> Shah, an Afghan tribal leader, established a united state covering most > >>> of present-day Afghanistan. His dynasty, the Durrani, gave the Afghans > >>> the name (Durrani) that they themselves frequently use. > > On Dec 5, 5:23 pm, Mark <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Quite simply put.... every where else the Mongols conquered they > > placed troops to occupy and hold the lands.... they took their due in > > taxes by doing so. > > > For your position to be more correct than mine you would need > > demonstrate an iota of evidence that said army did more than simply > > pass through killing as they went.... there is no evidence of the > > Mongol leaving anything more than scorched earth on their path. There > > is no documentation that the effort leave a taxpaying infrastructure > > as done in all other conquered lands was even considered. > > > There is no evidence that the Mongol Army because of its magnitude > > (tracks still appear as a trail on satellite imagery) did more than > > take a direct route to somewhere else. It was simple policy to destroy > > that which could not be held or that which was undesirable > > > There are just so many traversable mountain passes that are great > > enough to ride and walk an Army through. > > > So for all practical purposes they did go around. There is NO evidence > > that they busied themselves with the four corners of this area as they > > did with all others as YOUR argument suggests. The vast majority, for > > lack of any other evidence, was left to itself. > > > ALL, that would be each and every one, of your supposed invasions were > > all done by what would be considered a local.... Your one attempt at > > correctness lists Timurid who by that time was also a Muslim...... and > > a local regardless of bloodline. > > > On 12/5/09, jgg1000a <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Once again you spin history... You said at first > > > >>>> The largest and most fierce army ever assembled had the good sense to > > >>>> "go around" because the leader KNEW that this was a people so > > > religiously, tribally and economically split that "he could take yet > > > never hold" this land.. > > > > Now you say > > > >>>> No, I got it right..... The shah or caliph was a despotic man who > > >>>> ruled > > >>>> by the bloody sword. > > > > Then came the Mongols who destroyed and left it to the ghosts... they > > > did NOT occupy. > > > > Which is it, "go around" or "left it to the ghosts"??? Let me > > > instruct > > > > Timorlame came from just to the North of Afghanistan (Turkish non > > > Pashtun tribes) > > > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Timurid_Dynasty_821_-_873_%28AD%29.PNG > > > > Or what about the Mughal Empire which was Afghani Tribes invading > > > India (1526-1856)??? > > > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mughal_Empire > > > > Or ths Sultans of Delhi (1206-1526)??? > > > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultan_of_Delhi > > > > Or the Sakis and other pre-Islamic invaders who settled in Afghanistan > > > and to raid the lowlands... The point is your claim that "Just as > > > no outside army has ever been able to do." is simplely not true... > > > Tribes have routinely invaded, conquered, and settled in parts of > > > Afghanistan and the tribe of Afghanistan have routinely invaded > > > neighbors... > > > > Now what is true that post Mughal Empire, no one has invaded and > > > conquered... But that is only the last 150 years... Those who have > > > controlled Afghanistan have been strong brutal rulers... > > > > On Dec 5, 1:05 pm, Mark <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> No, I got it right..... The shah or caliph was a despotic man who > > >> ruled by the bloody sword. > > > >> Then came the Mongols who destroyed and left it to the ghosts... they > > >> did NOT occupy. Just as no outside army has ever been able to do. Why > > >> ?? Because of the tribal/religious/economic rift that has always been > > >> Afghanistan. > > > >> Afghanistan has always reverted to its core when left alone and the > > >> only times in it history that is seemingly at peace is when everyone > > >> is ignoring what happens within its borders. > > > >> Leave the Afghans to their own butchery... just close off the drug and > > >> arms trade to them and allow no international flights/travel to anyone > > >> with an Afghan passport. > > > >> On 12/5/09, jgg1000a <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> > Study your history Mark again... The Mongols invade Afghanistan > > >> > ( then part of the Khwarazmian Empire) in 1219 -1221.... It was the > > >> > Mongol destruction of Afghanistan which turned Afghanistan into such a > > >> > lawless tribal area (and not for the first or last time)... > > > >> >http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wi... > > > >> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_invasions_of_India > > > >> >http://historymedren.about.com/library/text/bltxtafghan5.htm > > > >> >http://www.afghanan.net/afghanistan/mongols.htm > > > >> >>>> On the eastern borders of the Khwarizm Empire a Mongol chieftain by > > >> >>>> the > > >> >>>> name of Temujin, later entitled Genghis Khan, was busily > > >> >>>> consolidating > > >> >>>> his power. From him the Khwarizm Shah received the following note: > > >> >>>> "I > > >> >>>> am > > >> >>>> the sovereign of the sun-rise, and thou the sovereign of the > > >> >>>> sun-set. > > >> >>>> Let there be between us a firm treaty of friendship, amity, and > > >> >>>> peace > > >> >>>> and let traders and caravans on both sides come and go, and let the > > >> >>>> precious products and ordinary commodities which may be in my > > >> >>>> territory > > >> >>>> be con-veyed by them into thine, and those in thine into mine." With > > >> >>>> the > > >> >>>> notebearer he sent five hundred camels laden with gold, including a > > >> >>>> nugget of pure gold as big as a camel's neck, silver, silks, furs, > > >> >>>> sable > > >> >>>> and other "elegant and ingenious" rarities (Juzjani). > > > >> > Such riches were just too tempting for the Shah's avaricious bor-der > > >> > commander. He seized the treasure and, in an attempt to pre-vent news > > >> > of his perfidious act from reaching the ears of the Khan, killed all > > >> > those accompanying the caravan. Or so he thought. He had in fact > > >> > missed one young camel boy who, taking a steam bath, succeeded in > > >> > escaping through the chimney to return with the fateful news to his > > >> > master. Furious, Genghis Khan demanded that the Shah turn over the > > >> > border commander for punishment but the Shah, sublimely confident of > > >> > his supreme power, answered by returning the Khan's messengers with > > >> > singed beards. Insult having thus been added to theft and murder, the > > >> > flood gates opened for one of the most catastrophic episodes recorded > > >> > in the annals of mankind. > > > >> > Two hundred thousand Mongols marched west to chastise the Khwarizm > > >> > Shah in the year 1219. By 1221 Balkh, Herat, the Seistan, Ghazni, > > >> > Bamiyan and all points in between had fallen before the onslaught and > > >> > " . . . with one stroke a world which billowed with fertility was laid > > >> > desolate, and the regions thereof became a desert and the greater part > > >> > of the living dead and their skins and bones crumbling dust; and the > > >> > mighty were humbled and immersed in the calamities of perdition." So > > >> > says Juvaini, an eloquent eye-witness chronicler writing only thirty > > >> > years later. The ruined citadel of the Shansabani capital in Bamiyan > > >> > is a poignant, visual monument to the presence of Genghis Khan in > > >> > Afghanistan. Its name, Shahr-i-Gholghola, "City of Noise," refers to > > >> > the tumult of that final massacre during which the conqueror fulfilled > > >> > a vow to kill every man, woman and child, every animal and plant in > > >> > the valley of Bamiyan. > > > >> > Recovery was slow. The great irrigation works which had en-abled this > > >> > land to produce an abundance lay broken and useless, purposely > > >> > destroyed by Genghis Khan; anarchy so frightened traders that they > > >> > turned to the sea, and the great cities of the desert and the plain, > > >> > robbed of their livelihood, became mounds of sand. Only in the rich > > >> > province of Khurasan was there a return to law and order under an > > >> > extremely skillful local family, known as the Karts. Appointed > > >> > Governors by the Mongol Il-Khans of Persia in 1245, they expanded from > > >> > their capital at Herat to include Kandahar (1281), prominent since the > > >> > destruction of Bost by Alauddin Ghori, within their realm. When, > > >> > therefore, they de-clared their independence in 1332 they seemed well > > >> > on their way toward a long and prosperous reign. The huge bronze > > >> > cauldron in the courtyard of the great mosque in Herat is a stunning > > >> > ex-ample of their sophisticated tastes. A new storm was, however, > > >> > already brewing in Central Asia. > > > >> > On Dec 4, 10:07 pm, Mark <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> >> The largest and most fierce army ever assembled had the good sense to > > >> >> "go around" because the leader KNEW that this was a people so > > >> >> religiously, tribally and economically split that "he could take yet > > ... > > read more » -- Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. * Read the latest breaking news, and more.
