LOL! One year during the Bush administration the DOE reported that it could not account for a billion dollars of its budgeted money. Efficient? And you asked where the government got the data to compile their cost estimates. Who cares? I mean it might be of interest to know just HOW they fucked up, but the larger, more relevant point is that THEY FUCKED UP, and they DO IT ALL THE TIME!!! The government has no incentive to bring a job in on time or at cost or to hold contractors feet to the flames when they over run because they just go back to the limitless tax well for more money. Just look at what these craven assholes are doing RIGHT NOW. The country is in dire shape, financially, and these self-interested pigs are stuffing every bill full of insipid pork projects, many of which are government parks or or other facilities requiring more government workers, increasing forever the burden on tax payers.
On Mar 3, 1:46 pm, Hollywood <jims29...@gmail.com> wrote: > Zeb, > > My dying ass it's subterfuge. Finding out who profits from any given > action is key to finding out who is responsible for the initiating > that action in the first place. Ask any decent cop or investigator. > > That's why I asked from where did the govt. get their data to compile > the cost estimates. > > That's the point, you DON"T know, so for all you know the agencies > mentioned are wondefully effecient. > > On Mar 3, 9:44 am, Zebnick <zebn...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > "Who profited from it" is subterfuge. Does it matter which > > construction company or cement hauler or heavy equipment supplier or > > construction or electrical union workers made more money because of > > the total inefficiency and poor planning? If you let people make more > > money by increasing your order size or taking three times as long to > > finish as planned, they'll take the money. To be sure, there are cost > > over runs in private projects as well, but they pale in comparison to > > what the government does. > > > As far as the IRS is concerned, I don't know how efficiently they run > > their operation and I don't think anyone has the balls question them > > about it. > > > On Mar 2, 4:28 pm, Hollywood <jims29...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Zeb, > > > > I do, you should. Didn't ASK who was responsible in your eyes. I asked > > > who profited from it. > > > > Where did I say a particular govt. agency is particularily effecient? > > > I said, if given the chance, corporations would steal even more, even > > > faster with even less accountability. Oh I don't know, the IRS has > > > been pretty effecient about sucking money out of me you years. How > > > about you? > > > > On Mar 2, 3:14 pm, Zebnick <zebn...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > Who cares who they got their cost estimates from? When the government > > > > decides to do something like the Big Dig, they are, for all intents > > > > and purposes, the general contractor and, as such, have responsibility > > > > for costs AND cost over runs. If you were an owner who had a project > > > > being built for you and your general contractor came to you and said > > > > that the project was going to cost you five times what he quoted you, > > > > what would you say? > > > > > What government agencies would you characterize as efficient? The DOE? > > > > Not even close. For all of the billions they have spent and MISPLACED, > > > > they have had little or no positive effect on outcome. Government > > > > bureaucracies are a malignant cancer and WILL kill us if they aren't > > > > stopped. > > > > > On Mar 2, 3:24 pm, Hollywood <jims29...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > Zeb, > > > > > > Who did the govt. get their cost estimates from? Who profited from the > > > > > cost overuns? > > > > > How many guesses would you like? > > > > > > On Mar 2, 12:30 pm, Zebnick <zebn...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > What in the wide wide world of sports would make you think that ANY > > > > > > entity could be more corrupt, incompetent and wasteful than the > > > > > > government? What government agency does a lot and costs little? More > > > > > > typical is The Big Dig in Boston, costing many times its initial > > > > > > estimated cost. Or the hole in the ground, ten years later, where > > > > > > the > > > > > > World Trade Center used to be. > > > > > > > On Mar 2, 12:32 pm, Hollywood <jims29...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > frankg, > > > > > > > > In the recent 2008 national elections the Dems and Repubs > > > > > > > recieved 98% > > > > > > > of all votes cast. ALL the Independents and other parties combined > > > > > > > only recieved just 2% of the votes cast. > > > > > > > > Corporations will steal even more and do it faster with even less > > > > > > > recourse available to the citizens. Read the lasr sentance of my > > > > > > > previous post and feel free to refute it, if able. > > > > > > > > On Mar 2, 9:36 am, frankg <fran...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hollywood, > > > > > > > > > OK, we're in agreement on your first point. I've been > > > > > > > > supporting 3rd > > > > > > > > party candidates for years. But as I commented above, Congress > > > > > > > > makes > > > > > > > > the rules for Congress, and our system is designed to ensure > > > > > > > > the two > > > > > > > > parties dominate. I'm game for any changes that can level the > > > > > > > > playing > > > > > > > > field. The reforms you suggest would be a good start but I > > > > > > > > believe > > > > > > > > more would be needed to give 3rd party candidates a chance. > > > > > > > > > I agree changes need to be made to our health care system but I > > > > > > > > don't > > > > > > > > believe nationalizing it will work. I simply do not trust the > > > > > > > > government to run anything and do it well. Medicare is a > > > > > > > > fraction of > > > > > > > > what's being proposed and is a financial disaster. I wonder how > > > > > > > > many > > > > > > > > examples of government incompetence, corruption and > > > > > > > > ineffectiveness is > > > > > > > > required before people stop believing government is the way to > > > > > > > > solve > > > > > > > > our problems. > > > > > > > > > On Mar 1, 9:45 pm, Hollywood <jims29...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > frankg, > > > > > > > > > > Real simple. BOTH major parties are corrupt beyond belief. > > > > > > > > > You get to > > > > > > > > > vote for the candidates THEY put on the ballot and the media, > > > > > > > > > both > > > > > > > > > conservative and liberal, simply ignore candidates that are > > > > > > > > > NOT from > > > > > > > > > the two major parties. > > > > > > > > > > One start would be taxpayer funding of state and national > > > > > > > > > candidates. > > > > > > > > > Put the money in a pool to be divided equally amoung ALL > > > > > > > > > candidates > > > > > > > > > that meet certain qualifications to run for state or national > > > > > > > > > offices. > > > > > > > > > NO corporate OR private contributions of ANY sort. Enough of > > > > > > > > > "the guy > > > > > > > > > who has the most money to spend wins", let the candidates win > > > > > > > > > or lose > > > > > > > > > on their ideas and accomplishments and let the candidates > > > > > > > > > from the > > > > > > > > > smaller parties have the same to spend as from the two major > > > > > > > > > ones. > > > > > > > > > > We have the world's most expensive health care, yet far from > > > > > > > > > the best. > > > > > > > > > Time to try something different. > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 1, 8:02 pm, frankg <fran...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hollywood, > > > > > > > > > > > And where are these mythical 'better people' supposed to > > > > > > > > > > come from? > > > > > > > > > > Are better people campaigning against the crooks and just > > > > > > > > > > never > > > > > > > > > > managing to win? > > > > > > > > > > > Yep, sure do. How about we get rid of DHS *and* not do > > > > > > > > > > government > > > > > > > > > > healthcare. That would be a great start. > > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 1, 7:19 pm, Hollywood <jims29...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > frankg, > > > > > > > > > > > > #1 Already answered that comment. Elect better people. > > > > > > > > > > > > #2 Same answer as above. > > > > > > > > > > > > #3 How about we trade DHS for Nationalized Health Care? > > > > > > > > > > > You DO > > > > > > > > > > > understand, don't you, that DHS vastly increased the size > > > > > > > > > > > of the > > > > > > > > > > > govt.? > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 1, 5:53 pm, frankg <fran...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hollywood, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Elect better people, restore the checks and balances > > > > > > > > > > > > > in government." > > > > > > > > > > > > > Checks and balances are built into the system but they > > > > > > > > > > > > no longer work. > > > > > > > > > > > > Government has gotten way to big and that breeds > > > > > > > > > > > > corruption. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Never let anyone, or any group, obtain too much > > > > > > > > > > > > > power and/or retain it for too long." > > > > > > > > > > > > > Interesting concept considering Congress makes up the > > > > > > > > > > > > rules for > > > > > > > > > > > > Congress. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Did I say anything about MORE govt. involvement? No, > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think not." > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course you want more government involvement -- you > > > > > > > > > > > > support > > > > > > > > > > > > government healthcare. > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 1, 5:30 pm, Hollywood <jims29...@gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > frankg, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Elect better people, restore the checks and balances > > > > > > > > > > > > > in government. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Never let anyone, or any group, obtain too much power > > > > > > > > > > > > > and/or retain it > > > > > > > > > > > > > for too long. We get the govt. that we are willing to > > > > > > > > > > > > > tolerate. WE are > > > > > > > > > > > > > responsible for the govt. we have, there is no one to > > > > > > > > > > > > > blame except > > > > > > > > > > > > > ourselves. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did I say anything about MORE govt. involvement? No, > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 1, 3:55 pm, frankg <fran...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hollywood, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Two problems with this; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - When and where does it end. Government continues > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to expand and is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > now fully self perpetuating. Someone has to step up > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and state the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > obvious – it has to stop. 2.5 million employees.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > come on! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - The agencies that exist today are not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > particularly effective in any > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of what you claim they do. We’re getting cheated > > > > > > > > > > > > > > today by corporations > > > > > > > > > > > > > > making bad decisions and with no accountability. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Our air and water > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quality continues to decline. And our sons and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > daughters are dying in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wars fought for corporate profit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem is we have a society that more and more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > looks to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > government to do everything for them and government > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is notoriously > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ineffective at getting anything done. We need less > > > > > > > > > > > > > > government > > > > > > > > > > > > > > involvement, not more, and we need to be better at > > > > > > > > > > > > > > holding government > > > > > > > > > > > > > > accountable for what we do ask of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 1, 2:16 pm, Hollywood <jims29...@gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > MJ, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Key word in Mr. Madison's quote is "impartially". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tell me, just what > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > agency is ABLE to hold Corporations responsible > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and LIABLE for their > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > actions if > > ... > > read more » -- Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ * It's active and moderated. 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