Charlie Coleman wrote: > At 08:12 PM 2/21/2008 -0300, Ricardo Aráoz wrote: >> Charlie Coleman wrote: >>> At 03:50 PM 2/20/2008 -0600, Ed Leafe wrote: > ... >>>> No, it has to do with the fact that some people can't >> comprehend that >>>> when you create something, you are responsible for how it turns out. >>>> Free will only works in the context of unlimited insight and wisdom; >>> ... >>> >>> Well, actually, when we were first created, we were on the path to >>> unlimited insight and wisdom. There was only 1 thing were were not >> supposed >>> to do. We chose poorly and as a result, > >> We chose poorly because we where what we are? >> >> A: Yes >> Q: Then WHO the hell made us that way? >> >> A: No >> Q: So why the fuck should it be our responsibility, it was not our free will. > > I'm not sure I follow your question exactly, but I think the response would > be "Yes" we chose poorly because of what we are. So when you ask who made > us that way, I believe the response is "we" did. > > It sounds like the hang up you have is that God may actually allow His > created to make a wrong choice. I suppose I'm trying to say that when He > gave us "free will" it seems He limited Himself in that He would not > intervene if we did make a wrong choice.
Read Ed's response to this. > > So maybe the real question is why would God give "free will?" Of course I > can't claim to know the full answer to this. So you "can't claim to know the full answer to this" but you can claim to "know" how and how much god limited himself? What a curiously patched knowledge you claim. > But maybe it has to do with > the difference in relating to "controlled" creatures and "free will" > creatures. For example, I want my son to help around the house. When it's > time to take the trash out, sometimes I have to tell him and make him do > it. Other times he just does it on his own. In both cases I'm pleased that > he does it, but when he chooses to do it, the feeling I get is much more > profound. I hope that doesn't sound to trite. But if you see what I'm > getting at, imagine that is magnified infinitely more for God when His > created choose Him over their own pride. If you were to design your son. Would you design him so that he chose to do it or that he doesn't. And if your son does as he's been designed wouldn't it be foolish to either be pleased or be frustrated? And if he doesn't do as he is designed... then the fault lies in the designer and not in your son. And if you say you let "chance" make that choice I should remind you you are god so you control chance, and if you choose not to, then why blame chance's outcome on your son. _______________________________________________ Post Messages to: [email protected] Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
