I endorse this idea. My first message in this thread was more a reflection of my mood than a practical proposal, unfortunately. What I did not like was exactly what other posters have cautioned against: the idea that 13&: is effective for producing production code. (By "production" I mean non-exploratory.)
What Dan is pointing toward is an opportunity to clarify the peripheral nature of automated tacit production. That change seems likely to help those who are new to J. --T On Mar 19, 2012 9:07 AM, "Dan Bron" <j...@bron.us> wrote: > Though not my usual position on J development, I'd support decommissioning > 13 : . > > I see its function as more appropriate to a standard library than a > primitive. For one thing, libraries are easier to change than primitives, > and therefore more amenable to user feedback. > > For another, I see 13 : 's role as primarily pedagogical, and the script > could include additional teaching material that a primitive cannot. Also, I > think using a script would discourage inappropriate (ab)use of the > transformation, like blindly trusting it, or believing it has a role > outside of learning how to write tacit verbs. > > -Dan > > PS: A note on usage; if we want an adverb to convert a (quoted) noun > phrase to a tacit verb, then we only need to say 13 : . There is no need > for curry, as in 13 & : , and in fact that phrase is a grammatical (syntax) > error. Currying is only needed to bind a noun to a verb. Conjunctions > like : have binding power already (in fact, that's why & is a > conjunction). > > > -----Original Message----- > From: programming-boun...@jsoftware.com [mailto: > programming-boun...@jsoftware.com] On Behalf Of Devon McCormick > Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2012 2:07 PM > To: Programming forum > Subject: Re: [Jprogramming] why=: 13 :'y*y*y' > > It's not a good advertisement for J when something so simple is so > clearly wrong. I would certainly rank fixing an obvious bug over, > say, a performance improvement in a little-used feature like look-up > of symbolic names. > > On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 1:26 PM, Tracy Harms <kalei...@gmail.com> wrote: > > To clarify, I do think 13&: could be improved. I think your examples can > > help with that. I don't find flaws in this modifier very interesting > among > > possible improvement efforts. > > On Mar 17, 2012 3:45 AM, "Linda Alvord" <lindaalv...@verizon.net> wrote: > > > >> David Ward Lambert pointed out the known pitfall that occurs using : > 13 : > >> > >> > >> > >> Would these examples help in correcting the problem? > >> > >> > >> > >> why=: 13 :'y+y' NB. wrong > >> > >> why > >> > >> + > >> > >> why 3 > >> > >> 3 > >> > >> why=: 13 :'y-y' NB. right > >> > >> why > >> > >> -~ > >> > >> why 3 > >> > >> 0 > >> > >> why=: 13 :'y*y' NB. wrong > >> > >> why > >> > >> * > >> > >> why 3 > >> > >> 1 > >> > >> why=: 13 :'y%y' NB. right > >> > >> why > >> > >> %~ > >> > >> why 3 > >> > >> 1 > >> > >> why=: 13 :'y+y+y' NB. wrong > >> > >> why > >> > >> ] + + > >> > >> why 3 > >> > >> 6 > >> > >> why=: 13 :'y-y-y' NB. right > >> > >> why > >> > >> ] - -~ > >> > >> why 3 > >> > >> 3 > >> > >> why=: 13 :'y*y*y' NB. wrong > >> > >> why > >> > >> ] * * > >> > >> why 3 > >> > >> 3 > >> > >> why=: 13 :'y%y%y' NB. right > >> > >> why > >> > >> ] % %~ > >> > >> why 3 > >> > >> 3 > >> > >> > >> > >> Linda > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > >> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > > > -- > Devon McCormick, CFA > ^me^ at acm. > org is my > preferred e-mail > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
