Gua yakin si reza ga pernah baca "biografi" karangan Ibnu Hisham, yg dibaca itu cuma "biografi" bikinan si Karen Armstrong atau pengarang picisan lainnya yg udah milih2.
On 7/3/13, meduguba <medug...@yahoo.com> wrote: > Dear Reza, > > Menurut biografi yang Anda baca, apakah pekerjaan Nabi Muhammad SAW ? > Bagaimana cara Beliau dan para pengikutnya mencari rezeki untuk hidup > sehari-hari ? > > Salam, Guba > > --- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, "rezameutia" <rezameutia@...> wrote: >> >> Tentu gw udah baca dong biografi nabi Muhammad, bukannya 'kalo' lagi >> seperti omongan lo yang dogol. >> >> Gw kan kalo ngomong berdasarkan buku, bukannya asal nguap seperti elo dan >> gerombolan kristen dogol yang cuman copas dari website sampah seperti >> 'answering islam' atau 'faithfreedom'. >> >> >> >> >> >> --- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, itemabu2 <itemabu2@> wrote: >> > >> > Apa lu pernah baca biografi nabi bejad lu? Kl pernah, pasti lu tau >> > nabi lu itu ngembat anak ingusan, ngerampok, ngebantai dsb. >> > >> > Apa mungkin lu bacanya pake "mikir", yg ga sesuai dgn kemauan lu lu >> > buang begitu aja? >> > >> > >> > >> > On 7/2/13, rezameutia <rezameutia@> wrote: >> > > >> > > Memang jelas ada perbedaan besar antara alkitab dan al quran. >> > > >> > > Perbedaaannya alkitab bukan hanya dengan al quran, tapi dengan seluruh >> > > kitab >> > > suci agama lain juga alkitab memang berbeda besar. >> > > >> > > Alkitab isinya cabul, ini yang merupakan perbedaan yang mendasar >> > > diantara >> > > kitab suci agama lainnya di dunia. Kisah INCEST di alkitab hanya >> > > merupakan >> > > salah satu dari cerita2 cabul lainnya di alkitab. >> > > >> > > Toh pada kenyataannya, lo cuman muter2 ngomong apologetik tentang >> > > kejadian >> > > INCEST di alkitab ini. Kemarin lo mengatakan Nabi Lot adalah tukang >> > > minum >> > > dan pemabuk, sekarang lo ngomong anak perempuannya yang salah. >> > > >> > > Kitab suci agama di seluruh dunia, udah pasti yang namanya nabi >> > > adalah >> > > manusia pilihan tuhan dan mempunyai perilaku dan pribadi yang baik. >> > > Makanya, tentu saja berbeda dengan alkitab yang menghina nabi dengan >> > > melakukan perbuatan bejat INCEST, >> > > >> > > Atau ketika Nabi Daud ngembat istri orang lain dengan mengirim >> > > suaminya Uria >> > > (?) maju ke medan perang. Dan juga ketika putra Daud Annon >> > > memperkosa >> > > saudara perempuannya sendiri. >> > > >> > > Ini kan jelas merupakan penghinaan terhadap Nabi dan keluarganya >> > > diceritakan >> > > di alkitab sebagai keluarga bajingan tengik, rapist, gila sex. >> > > >> > > Mana ada kitab suci agama lain yang menghina nabinya seperti alkitab? >> > > >> > > Nabi Muhammad tidak mungkin melakukan perbuatan bejat seperti >> > > merampok, >> > > melecehkan perempuan, atau bahkan membunuh. Biografi nabi Muhammad >> > > tertulis >> > > dengan lengkap dan jelas, dari sejak kecil hingga beliau wafat. >> > > >> > > Seperti gw sering bilang, lo dan kristen2 dogol nggak bisa >> > > menunjukkan >> > > kelemahan ajaran Islam dan al quran lalu mengarang cerita sayur >> > > tentang Nabi >> > > Muhammad dan copas2 berita tentang kriminal di negara Pakistan, >> > > Afghan, dan >> > > negara lainnya. >> > > >> > > Gw ngomong tentang alkitab dan ajaran goblok penuh dogma seperti >> > > trinitas, >> > > dosa waris. Sekarang lo tunjukkan kelemahan ajaran Islam dan al >> > > quran. >> > > Apple to apple. Ngerti goblok?! >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > --- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, Gabriella Rantau <gkrantau@> wrote: >> > >> >> > >> Bang Reza, ada perbedaan besar & jelas antara Alkitab dan Al Qur'an. >> > >> Alkitab menyampaikan ajaran a.l. dengan membeberkan perbuatan yg >> > >> baik >> > >> sebagai teladan, dan juga perbuatan yg jahat, mesum sebagai >> > >> peringatan >> > >> agar tidak dilakukan umat Kristiani. >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> Al Qur'an mengajar Muslim untuk mengikuti perkataan, perbuatan, dan >> > >> teladan Nabi Muhamamad. Sayangnya banyak perbuatan Sang Nabi yg >> > >> tidak >> > >> baik, yg mesum, yg seharusnya tidak ditiru. >> > >> >> > >> Nah, dlm hal Lot dan anak2 perempuannya kita baca bhw kedua anak >> > >> perempuan >> > >> itu menginginkan agar garis keturunan ayahnya dapat langgeng. >> > >> Caranya >> > >> dengan tidur dengan ayahnya sendiri dan mengakibatkan keduanya >> > >> mengandung. >> > >> Ini jelas tidaankan mesum dan dosa. Anak keturunan dari kedua >> > >> perempuan >> > >> itu terbukti mendapat kutukan dari Tuhan-Allah Israel. Sekali lagi >> > >> ini >> > >> bukan salah si ayah tapi dosa anak2 perempuannya yg meskipun >> > >> beritikat >> > >> baik tapi melanggar hukum agama mereka. >> > >> >> > >> Muslim selalu ingin melakukan apa yg dilakukan dan diktakan oleh >> > >> Nabi >> > >> Muhammad. Misalnya, meleceha >> > >> kan kaum perempuan,. Merampok, berdusta, membunuh dan juga menyuruh >> > >> pengikutnya membunuh pengritik beliau. SangNabi juga meniduri Aisha >> > >> yg >> > >> baru umur 9 tahun (setibngkat deg murid kelas 2 SD). Muslim bercita2 >> > >> dapat >> > >> mengikuti teladan ini. >> > >> . >> > >> >> > >> Kembali mengenai ketentuan Auloh bhw Islam dan Nabi Muhammad itu >> > >> hanya >> > >> untuk penduduk Mekkah dan sekitarnya dapat anda baca sendiri di >> > >> Surat >> > >> An'am 6:92. Perkara Nabi Muhammad dan preman2 pengikutnya menyerbu >> > >> suku2 >> > >> Yahudi dan di Yathrib dan merampok serta membunuh mereka(dan mengusir >> > >> yg >> > >> tidak sempat dibunuh) ini jelas melanggar ajaran Qur'an sendiri. >> > >> >> > >> Memang Islam dlm kurun waktu kurang dari 100 tahun berhasil >> > >> mengalahkan, >> > >> menundukkan dan menjajah bangsa2 di sekitar Semenanjung Arabia ini >> > >> kenyataan. Anehnya mnrt Al Qur'an Muslim hanya dibolehkan berperang >> > >> kalau >> > >> mereka diserang lebih dulu karena agamanya dan diusir dari kampung >> > >> halamannya. Apa artinya ini? Mnrt Qur'an Muslim tidak boleh menjadi >> > >> agresor. Tapi apa yg terjadi sejak Hijarah, Muslim menyerang Mesir, >> > >> Persia, Iraq, turki, India, pantai utara Afrika bahkan mereka juga >> > >> sempat >> > >> merampok Roma dan menjajah semenanjung IBeria (Al Andalus). >> > >> >> > >> Ingat bangsa2 yg diserang dan diperbudak oleh Islam iniTIDAK pernah >> > >> menyerang Nabi Muhammad ataupun para pengikutnya. Jadi Muslim sejak >> > >> zaman >> > >> Sang Nabi adalah penyerang, agressors yg keji. And mungkin pernah >> > >> baca >> > >> sejarah Perang 6 Hari. Di mana negara yahudi Israel diserang, >> > >> dikerubut >> > >> oleh 7 negara Islami - tanpa alasan kecuali ajaran kebencian yg >> > >> ditanampkan oleh Islam thdp umat Yahudi. Alhamdulillah, ke-7 >> > >> penyerbu, >> > >> penyerang Islam ini kalaha hanya dlm waktu 6 hari. Negara2 ini >> > >> akibatnya >> > >> kehilangan berbagai wilayahnya. >> > >> >> > >> Muslim dari banyak negara Islami pergi ke negara2 kafir untuk minta >> > >> visa >> > >> perlindungan. JutaanMuslim dari Afrika, Mesir, Iran, Iraq, >> > >> Afghanistan, >> > >> Sudan, Pakistan dsb. berbondong2 menyelundupkan diri ke negara Barat >> > >> (kafir). Mengapa mereka tideak bahagia tinggal di negeri2 yg Islami >> > >> yg >> > >> katanya mengikuti Syariah Islam yg jitu. Ini juga bukti nyata bhw >> > >> Islam >> > >> bukanlah rahmatan il alamin tetapi justru sebaliknya menjadi mush >> > >> dunia >> > >> beradab dan benalu penghisap kebaikan hati bangsa2 yg beragama >> > >> setidaknya >> > >> beradaban kristiani. >> > >> >> > >> Coba renungkan sejenak. >> > >> >> > >> Gabriella >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> ________________________________ >> > >> >> > >> To: proletar@yahoogroups.com >> > >> Sent: Sunday, 30 June 2013 9:31 AM >> > >> Subject: Agama yg kompatibel dg akal? Re: [proletar] Re: Islam at war >> > >> with >> > >> itself! >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >>  >> > >> Hehehe... >> > >> >> > >> Setelah lo ngibul kemarin tentang nabi lot yang tukang minum dan >> > >> pemabuk, >> > >> sekarang lo masih juga muke tebel mau ngibul lagi tentang quran. >> > >> >> > >> Entah lo itu memang dogol asli atau memang tukang kibul muka tebal >> > >> yang >> > >> nggak tau malu, tapi yang udah jelas sih lo itu agamanya kristen. >> > >> >> > >> Seperti udah sering gw bilang, al quran itu untuk orang yang >> > >> berpikir. >> > >> Makanya, ajaran islam tidak sama seperti ajaran kristen yang penuh >> > >> dogma. >> > >> >> > >> Jadi, kalo lo ngomong bawa2 ayat bahwa islam hanya untuk orang2 di >> > >> mekkah >> > >> dan sekitarnya kenyataannya islam lalu berkembang ke Medinah, lalu >> > >> berkembang ke seluruh jazirah arab, lalu islam berkembang lagi ke >> > >> seluruh >> > >> penjuru dunia. >> > >> >> > >> Kenyataannya yang tidak bisa dipungkiri bahwa agama islam menyebar >> > >> ke >> > >> seluruh penjuru dunia dan sampe sekarang malahan islam berkembang >> > >> pesat >> > >> melebihi agama2 lainnya di dunia. >> > >> >> > >> Dalam islam itu ada tingkatan yang disebut rasul, nabi, auliya, >> > >> wali, >> > >> yang bisa aja berasal dari penduduk setempat yang menyebarkan dan >> > >> mengajarkan islam sesuai dengan kebudayaannya masing2. >> > >> >> > >> Ayat2 yang tertulis di al quran berhubungan dan saling terkait satu >> > >> sama >> > >> lainnya. Kalo lo sudah terbiasa membaca alkitab yang penuh dogma >> > >> karena >> > >> nggak pake akal tentunya lo nggak akan bisa ngerti quran yang >> > >> membacanya >> > >> harus pake akal. >> > >> >> > >> --- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, Gabriella Rantau <gkrantau@> wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > Memang bener Islam sesuai dengan kebudayaan setempat. Tepatnya >> > >> > sesuai dg >> > >> > budaya dan adat-istiadat Mekkah dan mereka yg tinggal di sekitar >> > >> > Ummul >> > >> > qura! >> > >> > >> > >> > Kalian harus mengakui bhw Qur'an diturunkan khusus untuk Mekkah >> > >> > dan >> > >> > sekitarnya. Nabi Muhammad juga dipilih oleh Auloh khusus untuk >> > >> > orang2 >> > >> > Arab yg bermukim di Mekkah dan sekitarnya.Sebelum ada yg mau >> > >> > berdusta >> > >> > (ber-Al Taqiyya) Auloh mnyatakan bhw 'kepada setiap umat-bangsa >> > >> > dikirim >> > >> > seorang nabi yg berasal dari suku-bangsa tsb.' Supaya nabi setempat >> > >> > itu >> > >> > dpt menyampaikan perintahAuloh dlm bahasa setempat yg tentunya >> > >> > dimengerti orang setempat dan yg tahu adat-istiadat, budaya >> > >> > setempat. >> > >> > >> > >> > Inilah yg tertulis dlm Al Qur'an Karim. Tidak ada perintah Auloh >> > >> > agar >> > >> > Islam disesuaikan dengan budaya Aceh, Minang ataupun Jawa. Kalau >> > >> > sampai >> > >> > ada penyesuaian ajaran Islam dg budaya, adat setempat di >> > >> > luarMekkah, >> > >> > maka ini sudah jelas melanggar perintah Auloh. >> > >> > >> > >> > Gabriella >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ________________________________ >> > >> > From: rezameutia <rezameutia@> >> > >> > To: proletar@yahoogroups.com >> > >> > Sent: Friday, 28 June 2013 7:46 PM >> > >> > Subject: Agama yg kompatibel dg akal? Re: [proletar] Re: Islam at >> > >> > war >> > >> > with itself! >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >  >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > --- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, itemabu2 <itemabu2@> wrote: >> > >> > > >> > >> > > Hehehe... kapan Islam hrs ngikut adat setempat? Coba tunjukin >> > >> > > ayat >> > >> > > mana yg bilang spt itu? >> > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > Lah..., kan gw udah bilang, Islam di Indonesia, Islam di Pakistan, >> > >> > Islam >> > >> > di Arab, semuanya beda2 berdasarkan adat istiadat setempat. Cuma >> > >> > aqidah >> > >> > nya tetep sama Islam di seluruh dunia. >> > >> > >> > >> > Gini deh tem..., gw nggak usah jauh2 ngomong perbedaan Islam di >> > >> > luar >> > >> > negeri deh. Susah sih ngomong ama kristen dogol kayak eloy ang >> > >> > kapasitas otaknya terbatas. >> > >> > >> > >> > Islam di Jawa jelas berbeda dengan Islam di Minang. >> > >> > >> > >> > Islam di Jawa patriarch, Islam di Minang matriarch. >> > >> > Islam di Jawa berziarah ke makam, Islam di Minang nggak pernah >> > >> > ziarah >> > >> > kubur. >> > >> > >> > >> > Ini kan udah jelas, adat istiadat Jawa dan Minang berbeda tapi >> > >> > agamanya >> > >> > tetap sama, Islam. Jadi, memang Islam itu udah jelas beradaptasi >> > >> > ngikutin adat istiadat setempat. Ngerti nggak, njing..?? >> > >> > >> > >> > > Lu kan ngaku secara implisit bhw Quran bilang kesaksian cewek itu >> > >> > > 1/2 >> > >> > > dr kesaksian cowok. Emangnya lalu orang bisa buang ayat QUran itu >> > >> > > unt >> > >> > > diganti dgn hukum lain yg lbh masuk akal? >> > >> > > >> > >> > > Kl gitu, ayat Quran yg bilang kesaksian cewek 1/2 dr kesaksian >> > >> > > cowok >> > >> > > itu ga masuk akal, bukan? >> > >> > > >> > >> > > Dan lu milih2 ayat spy bisa lu sesuaikan dgn adat setempat. >> > >> > > >> > >> > > Silakan aja lu kaing2 ttg 65:4, tafsir bilang persis spt yg gua >> > >> > > bilang. >> > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > Gw udah bilang, kesaksian cewek 1/2 dari kesaksian cowok bisa aja >> > >> > terjadi di negara arab ato di afghanistan, tapi yang jelas >> > >> > kesaksian >> > >> > cewek di Indonesia sama aja dengan kesaksian cowok. >> > >> > >> > >> > Cuman kan, lo dan gerombolan kristen anjing dogol kagak punya otak >> > >> > sering copas kejadian berita di arab, di pakistan, di afghanistan >> > >> > mulu. >> > >> > >> > >> > Udah deh, lo kasih aja ayat 65:4, lalu lo bahas dan debat langsung >> > >> > sama >> > >> > gw disini pake pemikiran lo sendiri yang orisinal. >> > >> > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > Lu ga mau ngikutin tafsir, Quran dan sunnah, itu artinya lu >> > >> > > bukan >> > >> > > muslim yg mukmin. >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > Ya memang beda gw sama elo. >> > >> > >> > >> > Gw, di agama Islam, musti dipake otaknya. Segala macem keputusan >> > >> > musti >> > >> > dipertimbangkan baik dan buruknya, istilah Islamnya 'manfaat dan >> > >> > mudharatnya'. Setelah melalui pertimbangan yang matang barulah >> > >> > keputusan diambil. >> > >> > >> > >> > Lo kan memang kristen sejati, kristen yang taat dan selalu >> > >> > mengikuti >> > >> > perintah alkitab. Makanya lo tega ngembat ibu lo sendiri, lo >> > >> > halal >> > >> > ngebuntingin anak lo sendiri, karena itu kan sesuai dengan >> > >> > perintah >> > >> > alkitab yang penuh dogma. >> > >> > >> > >> > Bener gitu kan, tem? >> > >> > >> > >> > Hehehe... >> > >> > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > On 6/27/13, rezameutia <rezameutia@> wrote: >> > >> > > > Coba >> > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > >> > > > --- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, itemabu2 <itemabu2@> wrote: >> > >> > > >> >> > >> > > >> Lu ga pernah mau ngaku apa isi 65:4. >> > >> > > >> >> > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > >> > > > Ah.., omongan lo muter2 mulu kayak anjing lagi ngejar ekornya. >> > >> > > > >> > >> > > > Dulu kan ayat 65:4 ini udah pernah dibahas kalo lo sekarang >> > >> > > > mau >> > >> > > > ngebahas >> > >> > > > lagi, silahkan aja kasih ayat ini dan ngebahas lagi tentang >> > >> > > > masa >> > >> > > > iddah itu. >> > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > >> > > >> Hehehe... jadi lu ngaku bhw Quran bilang kesaksian cewek itu >> > >> > > >> 1/2 >> > >> > > >> dr >> > >> > > >> kesaksian cowok, bukan? >> > >> > > >> >> > >> > > >> Kalo misal ada negara muslim yg ga melaksanakan konsep itu, >> > >> > > >> itu >> > >> > > >> sih >> > >> > > >> cuma sekedar milih2 ayat yg ga disukai unt ga diterapkan. >> > >> > > >> >> > >> > > >> Knp ayat yg bilang kesaksian cewek 1/2 dr kesaksian cowok itu >> > >> > > >> ga >> > >> > > >> diterapkan? Jawabnya adalah krn ga masuk akal krn ga sesuai >> > >> > > >> dgn >> > >> > > >> fakta, >> > >> > > >> melecehkan cewek dan nindas cewek. >> > >> > > >> >> > >> > > >> Betul ga yg gua bilang? >> > >> > > >> >> > >> > > >> Lu tanya ajaran Islam mana yg ga masuk akal, gua udah ngasih >> > >> > > >> contohnya >> > >> > > >> unt ngebuktikan kebenaran omongan gua. >> > >> > > >> >> > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > >> > > > Mana ada yang bener omongan manusiia berotak kosong dan >> > >> > > > bermental >> > >> > > > anjing >> > >> > > > kayak elo? >> > >> > > > Gw kan udah kasih jawaban dibawah tuh tentang kesaksian >> > >> > > > perempuan >> > >> > > > di >> > >> > > > Indonesia, artinya Islam sebagai agama universal beradaptasi >> > >> > > > dengan >> > >> > > > adat >> > >> > > > istiadat setempat. >> > >> > > > >> > >> > > > Makanya orang Islam di Arab, orang Islam di Pakistan, orang >> > >> > > > Islam >> > >> > > > di >> > >> > > > Amerika, orang Islam di Indonesia, semuanya berbeda karena >> > >> > > > adat >> > >> > > > istiadatnyanya berbeda. >> > >> > > > >> > >> > > > Kristen2 dogol kayak elo selalu copas berita2 dari Arab, >> > >> > > > Pakistan, >> > >> > > > Aghan, >> > >> > > > dan bilang Islam itu sama. >> > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > >> > > >> Kl lu mau kaing2 tentang Alkitab, silakan aja lu terusin >> > >> > > >> kaing2 >> > >> > > >> lu. >> > >> > > >> Gua ga hrs ngelayanin kaing2 dr anjing buduk kejepit buntut. >> > >> > > >> >> > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > >> > > > Bagus deh... >> > >> > > > >> > >> > > > Artinya lo mengakui bahwa alkitab isinya cabul dan sesat, >> > >> > > > makanya lo >> > >> > > > halal >> > >> > > > ngembat ibu lo sendiri, halal ngembat anak sendiri seperti >> > >> > > > anjing >> > >> > > > seperti >> > >> > > > perintah di alkitab. Hehehe.... >> > >> > > > >> > >> > > > Memang bukan cuma lo aja kok yang ngacir kalo membahas ayat2 >> > >> > > > di >> > >> > > > alkitab yang >> > >> > > > cabul dan sesat. Pendeta nub aja nggak berani membantah bahwa >> > >> > > > alkitab >> > >> > > > memang cabul dan sesat kok... >> > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > >> > > >> BUat gua, semakin sering lu kaing2 spt itu, semakin kliatan >> > >> > > >> betapa >> > >> > > >> dungunya anjing2 buduk piaraan orang Islam spt suryana dan >> > >> > > >> Teddy. >> > >> > > >> >> > >> > > >> >> > >> > > >> >> > >> > > >> On 6/26/13, rezameutia <rezameutia@> wrote: >> > >> > > >> > >> > >> > > >> > >> > >> > > >> > --- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, itemabu2 <itemabu2@> >> > >> > > >> > wrote: >> > >> > > >> >> >> > >> > > >> >> Ngasih masa iddah ke cewek ingusan yg blm mens itu masuk >> > >> > > >> >> akal >> > >> > > >> >> ga? >> > >> > > >> >> >> > >> > > >> > >> > >> > > >> > >> > >> > > >> > Mana ada yang disebut 'masa iddah ke cewe ingusan yang blom >> > >> > > >> > mens'? >> > >> > > >> > >> > >> > > >> > Ini kan cuman opini goblok lo aja. >> > >> > > >> > Udah pernah kan lo berdebat dengan gw tentang masa iddah >> > >> > > >> > bukan >> > >> > > >> > untuk >> > >> > > >> > cewe >> > >> > > >> > ingusan, tapi lo tetep aja dengan pikiran opini dogol lo >> > >> > > >> > nganggap >> > >> > > >> > masa >> > >> > > >> > iddah >> > >> > > >> > adalah cewe ingusan yang blom mens. >> > >> > > >> > >> > >> > > >> > Lo bisa browsing di internet yang namanya masa iddah... >> > >> > > >> > >> > >> > > >> > >> > >> > > >> >> Kesaksian cewek 1/2 dr kesaksiakn cowok masuk akal ga? >> > >> > > >> >> >> > >> > > >> > >> > >> > > >> > >> > >> > > >> > Kenyataannya, saksi cw nggak kayak gitu di negara Muslim, >> > >> > > >> > dan >> > >> > > >> > juga >> > >> > > >> > negara >> > >> > > >> > muslim terbesar di dunia seperti di Indonesia, semua saksi >> > >> > > >> > cewe >> > >> > > >> > harganya >> > >> > > >> > sama dengan saksi cowo. >> > >> > > >> > >> > >> > > >> > Lha.., kok lo ngacir ketika ditanya tentang ayat2 di alkitab >> > >> > > >> > yang >> > >> > > >> > cabul >> > >> > > >> > dan >> > >> > > >> > sesat, tem? Karena tidak ada orang kristen dan bahkan >> > >> > > >> > pendeta >> > >> > > >> > kristen >> > >> > > >> > yang >> > >> > > >> > membantah hal itu, artinya lo mengakui bahwa alkitab itu >> > >> > > >> > cabul >> > >> > > >> > dan >> > >> > > >> > sesat >> > >> > > >> > ya? >> > >> > > >> > >> > >> > > >> > >> > >> > > >> > >> > >> > > >> > >> > >> > > >> > >> > >> > > >> >> >> > >> > > >> >> >> > >> > > >> >> On 6/25/13, rezameutia <rezameutia@> wrote: >> > >> > > >> >> > Yang mana ajaran Islam yang nggak masuk akal? >> > >> > > >> >> > >> > >> > > >> >> > Hadis memang musti dipilih2 karena orang Islam tau ada >> > >> > > >> >> > hadis >> > >> > > >> >> > palsu >> > >> > > >> >> > dan >> > >> > > >> >> > hadis >> > >> > > >> >> > sahih. Itu yang gw bilang musti dipake akalnya. >> > >> > > >> >> > >> > >> > > >> >> > Beda dengan elo dan kristen dogol yang nggak dipake >> > >> > > >> >> > akalnya. >> > >> > > >> >> > Tertulis >> > >> > > >> >> > di >> > >> > > >> >> > alkitab halal ngembat ibu sendiri, lo embat ibu lo >> > >> > > >> >> > sendiri, >> > >> > > >> >> > halal >> > >> > > >> >> > ngembat >> > >> > > >> >> > anak sendiri, lo embat anak lo sendiri sampe bunting. >> > >> > > >> >> > Halal >> > >> > > >> >> > memperkosa >> > >> > > >> >> > adik >> > >> > > >> >> > lo sendiri, lo perkosa adik lo juga. Memang agama >> > >> > > >> >> > kristen >> > >> > > >> >> > penuh >> > >> > > >> >> > dengan >> > >> > > >> >> > dogma, seperti diakui oleh tawangalun asli kok. >> > >> > > >> >> > >> > >> > > >> >> > Lalu, apa bedanya lo sama anjing tem? >> > >> > > >> >> > >> > >> > > >> >> > >> > >> > > >> >> > >> > >> > > >> >> > >> > >> > > >> >> > >> > >> > > >> >> > --- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, itemabu2 <itemabu2@> >> > >> > > >> >> > wrote: >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> > >> > > >> >> >> Si reza ngaku di milis ini bhw dia pilih2 hadis yg >> > >> > > >> >> >> sesuai >> > >> > > >> >> >> seleranya, >> > >> > > >> >> >> artinya hadis yg ga dipilih itu kalo bukannya dia ga >> > >> > > >> >> >> suka ya >> > >> > > >> >> >> dia >> > >> > > >> >> >> anggap ga masuk akal. Dgn sendirinya, ayat QUran jg >> > >> > > >> >> >> diperlakukan >> > >> > > >> >> >> sama >> > >> > > >> >> >> spt hadis, jg ajaran Islam yg ada di syariat iblisnya. >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> > >> > > >> >> >> Ngakunya sih agamanya itu kompatibel dg akal, padahal yg >> > >> > > >> >> >> tjd >> > >> > > >> >> >> adalah >> > >> > > >> >> >> agamanya disesuaikan dgn kemauannya, krn ga kompatibel. >> > >> > > >> >> >> Hrs >> > >> > > >> >> >> dimodifikasi. >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> > >> > > >> >> >> Emang dungu orang2 Islam itu. >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> > >> > > >> >> >> On 6/23/13, Gabriella Rantau <gkrantau@> wrote: >> > >> > > >> >> >> > And I qooute "Islam bikin cerdas dan pilihan agama >> > >> > > >> >> >> > harus >> > >> > > >> >> >> > kompatibel >> > >> > > >> >> >> > dengan >> > >> > > >> >> >> > akal". >> > >> > > >> >> >> > >> > >> > > >> >> >> > Apakah ini berarti ajaran Islam kompatibel dg akal? >> > >> > > >> >> >> > - Agama yg mengajarkan permusuhan; >> > >> > > >> >> >> > - Agama yg menelecehkan 50% dari manusia yaitukiaum >> > >> > > >> >> >> > perempuan yg >> > >> > > >> >> >> > diangap >> > >> > > >> >> >> > deficient dlm akal; >> > >> > > >> >> >> > - Agama yg mengamini tahayul: nabi naik Bouraq ke >> > >> > > >> >> >> > sorga; >> > >> > > >> >> >> > - Agama yg salah ngajarin ttg embryo development; >> > >> > > >> >> >> > - Agama yg ngajarin ada 7 langit dan 7 bumi; >> > >> > > >> >> >> > - Agama yg bilang bhw matahari terbenam di mataa air >> > >> > > >> >> >> > keruh >> > >> > > >> >> >> > di >> > >> > > >> >> >> > ujung >> > >> > > >> >> >> > barat >> > >> > > >> >> >> > bumi (artinya buminya datar spt tempat tidur orang >> > >> > > >> >> >> > bedu); >> > >> > > >> >> >> > - Agama yg ajarannya saling bertentangan. Misalnya: >> > >> > > >> >> >> > agamamu >> > >> > > >> >> >> > bagi >> > >> > > >> >> >> > mu >> > >> > > >> >> >> > dst. >> > >> > > >> >> >> > tapi bunuhlah mereka yg tidak percaya pd Alah dan Nabi >> > >> > > >> >> >> > dan >> > >> > > >> >> >> > puluhan >> > >> > > >> >> >> > lainnya. >> > >> > > >> >> >> > - Kalau hal2 di atas mnrt anda kompatibel dg akal, >> > >> > > >> >> >> > maka aku >> > >> > > >> >> >> > pikir >> > >> > > >> >> >> > akalnya yg >> > >> > > >> >> >> > kurang waras dan sekedar akal2n. >> > >> > > >> >> >> > >> > >> > > >> >> >> > Gabriella >> > >> > > >> >> >> > >> > >> > > >> >> >> > PS >> > >> > > >> >> >> > Tanya pd diri anda kenapa jutaan Muslim berbondong2 >> > >> > > >> >> >> > ingin >> > >> > > >> >> >> > bernaung >> > >> > > >> >> >> > di >> > >> > > >> >> >> > negara2 kafir? >> > >> > > >> >> >> > >> > >> > > >> >> >> > >> > >> > > >> >> >> > >> > >> > > >> >> >> > >> > >> > > >> >> >> > ________________________________ >> > >> > > >> >> >> > From: rezameutia <rezameutia@> >> > >> > > >> >> >> > To: proletar@yahoogroups.com >> > >> > > >> >> >> > Sent: Sunday, 23 June 2013 5:38 PM >> > >> > > >> >> >> > Subject: [proletar] Re: Islam at war with itself! >> > >> > > >> >> >> > >> > >> > > >> >> >> > >> > >> > > >> >> >> > >> > >> > > >> >> >> > >> > >> > > >> >> >> > Si gabby lagi ngayal... >> > >> > > >> >> >> > >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Kalau keadaan spt ini berlangsung dlm dekade2 >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> mendatang, >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> maka >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> tidak >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> mustahil kalau Islam akan hancur dari dalam. Islam >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> might >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> implode >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> without >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> any interference from any outside agencies. >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> >> > >> > > >> >> >> > >> > >> > > >> >> >> > Padahal udah jelas menurut Pew Research, Islam adalah >> > >> > > >> >> >> > agama >> > >> > > >> >> >> > yang >> > >> > > >> >> >> > paling >> > >> > > >> >> >> > bersinar dan Kristen agama yang meredup ditinggalkan >> > >> > > >> >> >> > pengikutnya. >> > >> > > >> >> >> > >> > >> > > >> >> >> > Semuanya udah jelas, ajaran goblok yang penuh dogma >> > >> > > >> >> >> > akan >> > >> > > >> >> >> > ditinggalkan >> > >> > > >> >> >> > pengikutnya karena manusia udah semakin cerdas dan >> > >> > > >> >> >> > pilihan >> > >> > > >> >> >> > agama >> > >> > > >> >> >> > harus >> > >> > > >> >> >> > kompatibel dengan akal. >> > >> > > >> >> >> > >> > >> > > >> >> >> > --- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, Gabriella Rantau >> > >> > > >> >> >> > <gkrantau@> >> > >> > > >> >> >> > wrote: >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> FYI: article dari Pakistan yg menarik yg menunjukkan >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Muslim >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> saling >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> memushi >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Muslim. Balas dendam dianggap sebagai keadilan. >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Memaafkan >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> dianggap >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> sebagai >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> kelemahan! Kalau keadaan spt ini berlangsung dlm >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> dekade2 >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> mendatang, >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> maka >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> tidak mustahil kalau Islam akan hancur dari dalam. >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Islam >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> might >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> implode >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> without any interference from any outside agencies. >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Gabriella >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> June 20, 2013 hancurSpecial Dispatch No.5342 >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Article In Pakistani >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Daily ÃÆ'¢â‚¬" 'Islam At War >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> ÃÆ'¢â‚¬" With >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Itself': 'Muslim Societies >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Have... >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Evolved >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Into Places Where Revenge Is Confused With Justice, >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Forgiveness >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> With >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Weakness, And Peace With Cowardice' >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Pakistan and many Islamic countries are witnessing >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> targeted >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> killings of Shia Muslims by Sunni jihadi forces such >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> as >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> the >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Taliban >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> and >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Al-Qaeda (image courtesy: shiapost.om) >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Given below are excerpts from an article that >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> appeared in >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> a >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> leading >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Pakistani daily following the June 15, 2013 terror >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> attacks >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> in >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Quetta, >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> the >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> capital of Pakistan's Baluchistan province, where a >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> female >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> suicide >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> bomber >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> attacked a bus carrying female students and later >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> the >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> militants >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> laid >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> siege >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> to a >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> medical complex where the injured were being >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> treated. >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> The article, titled "Islam at War >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> ÃÆ'¢â‚¬" With >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Itself" by prominent commentator Murtaza Haider, was >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> published >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> by >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Dawn, >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> a >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> liberal Pakistani newspaper. In it, Haider argues >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> that >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> the >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> debate >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> in the Islamic world focuses on the conflicts where >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Muslims are >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> oppressed >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> by >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> non-Muslims, while conveniently failing to raise a >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> debate >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> as to >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> why >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Muslims are >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> killing Muslims. >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Following are excerpts from the article:[1] >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> "From Aleppo In Syria To Quetta In Baluchistan, >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Muslims >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Are >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Engaged In The Slaughter Of Other Muslims"; "Many >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Wonder >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> If The >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Belief In Islam Is Sufficient To Bind Muslims In >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Peace >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> With Each >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Other" >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> "From Aleppo in Syria to Quetta in >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Baluchistan, Muslims are engaged in the slaughter of >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> other >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Muslims. >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> The >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> numbers >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> are enormous:ÃÆ'‚ over >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> 93,000 killed in the Syrian civil warÃÆ'‚ >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> andÃÆ'‚ over >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> 48,000 dead in Pakistan [since 2004]. >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> "Millions >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> have perished in similar intra-Muslim conflicts in >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> the >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> past four >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> decades. >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Many >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> wonder if the belief in Islam is sufficient to bind >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Muslims in >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> peace >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> with >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> each >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> other. >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> "Since >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> the end of the Second World War, the world has moved >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> in >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> two >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> distinct >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> directions. The West, mostly Christian, has tried to >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> minimize >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> the >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> intra-European conflict and has largely been >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> successful >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> with >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> some >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> exceptions. >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> The Muslim world, on the other hand, has fallen into >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> one >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> violent >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> conflict >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> after >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> another, involving mostly Muslims. >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> "Several >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> intra-Muslim conflicts continue to simmer as proxy >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> wars. >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> In the >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> '80s, >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> the >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Iran-Iraq war alone left millions dead. More >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> recently, a >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> car >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> bomb >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> in >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Iraq >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> on >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Sunday [June 16, 2013] killed another 39 in the >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> sectarian >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> warfare >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> between >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> the >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Shias and Sunnis that killedÃÆ'‚ at least >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> 1,045 in May >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> 2013." >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> "The >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Overwhelming Evidence... Suggests That The Sectarian >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> And >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Tribal >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Divisions >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Amongst Muslims And Justifying Violence In The Name >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Of >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Religion >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Are >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> The >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Primary >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Causes Of Why Islam Is At War With Itself" >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> "As the >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> violence amongst Muslims increases, most Muslims >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> prefer >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> denial, >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> or >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> look >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> for scapegoats. >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Those in denial believe no such violence exists and >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> the >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> entire >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> issue >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> is >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> made up >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> by the Western-controlled media. Others blame it on >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> scapegoats >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> ÃÆ'¢â‚¬" >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Indians >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> and >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Americans are the most frequently blamed. >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> "The >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> overwhelming evidence, however, suggests that the >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> sectarian and >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> tribal >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> divisions amongst Muslims and justifying violence in >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> the >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> name of >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> religion >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> are >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> the primary causes of why Islam is at war with >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> itself. >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> "In >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Pakistan, confessions and appalling claims of >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> responsibility by >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> the >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> spokespersons for the Tehreek-e-Taliban and >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Lashkar-e-Jhangvi >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> should >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> leave >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> no >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> doubt [as to] where the guilt resides. At the same >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> time, >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> the >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Pakistani >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> intelligence >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> agencies have put together incriminating evidence >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> running >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> into >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> hundreds >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> of >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> thousands of pages against the extremist sectarian >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> outfits, >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Al-Qaeda >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> affiliates, the nationalist militias in Baluchistan, >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> and >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> others >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> who >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> have >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> perpetrated indiscriminate violence against civilians >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> and >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> the >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> state >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> resulting >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> in over 48,000 deaths since 2004. >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> "The >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> hate-fuelled gulfs that divide Muslims are so wide >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> that >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> not only >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> unarmed >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> civilians, but doctors and others who try to save >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> victims >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> of >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> violence >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> are >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> also >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> targeted by the extremists.TheÃÆ'‚ attack on >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> the Bolan >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Medical >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> ComplexÃÆ'‚ >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> on >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Saturday [June 15, 2013 in Quetta], >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> which left scores dead, including four nurses, was >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> not the >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> first >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> of >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> its >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> kind. A >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> sectarian [Shia-Sunni] attack in Karachi in February >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> 2010 >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> was >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> followed >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> by >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> aÃÆ'‚ bomb attack on the Jinnah Postgraduate >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Medical >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Centre HospitalÃÆ'‚ where >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> victims were rushed for treatment. More than 25 Shia >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Muslims >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> perished >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> in >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> the >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> two attacks." >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> "From >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> The Very First Day, Muslims Are Taught That Their >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Belief >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> In >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Islam >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Trumps >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> All >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Other Identities That They May Hold"; "Why Then, >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Have >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Millions >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Of >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Muslims Died At The Hands Of Their Fellow >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Believers?" >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> "And while >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> the Muslim-on-Muslim violence is claiming victims >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> all >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> over >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Pakistan, >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> the >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> violence against non-Muslims, including Hindus and >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Christians, >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> often >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> brings >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> together Muslims of different stripes, who would >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> otherwise >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> be >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> fighting >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> each >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> other, in attacking religious minorities. >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> "The >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> targeted killings of university professors in Karachi >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> and >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Quetta, >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> the >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> murder of >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Shia doctors and professionals, and the attacks on >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> the >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> shrines >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> of >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> patron >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> saints >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> [i.e. Sufi mystics] are all evidence of the fact >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> that >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Muslims >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> have >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> been >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> killing >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> other Muslims while being motivated by hate and >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> using >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Islam to >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> justify >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> violence. >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> "Why >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> is that the belief in Islam is not sufficient to >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> prevent >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> violence >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> amongst >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Muslims? >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> "From >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> the very first day, Muslims are taught that their >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> belief >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> in >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Islam >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> trumps >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> all >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> other identities that they may hold. Their skin >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> color, >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> tribe, >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> caste, >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> or >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> creed ÃÆ'¢â‚¬" >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> none matters once they enter the fold of Islam. Why >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> then, >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> have >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> millions >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> of >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Muslims died at the hands of their fellow >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> believers?" >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> "Political, >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Religious, And Other Leaders In The Muslim World Have >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Kept >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> The >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Dialogue >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Focused >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> On The Conflicts Where Muslims Have Been The >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Victims"; >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> "Seldom >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Has >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> The Dialogue Focused On Why Muslims Kill Other >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Muslims" >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> "Political, >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> religious, and other leaders in the Muslim world have >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> kept >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> the >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> dialogue >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> focused >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> on the conflicts where Muslims have been the victims. >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> The >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Bosnian >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> conflict, the >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> communal violence in India, which has caused the >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> death of >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> thousands >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> of >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Muslims, >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> and the Arab-Israeli conflict have been the focus of >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Muslim >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> leaders. >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> "Seldom >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> has the dialogue focused on why Muslims kill other >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Muslims. And >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> even >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> if >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> the >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> topic ever comes up, it ends up being an exercise in >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> mass >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> scapegoating. >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> "Muslim >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> societies have thus evolved into places where revenge >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> is >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> confused >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> with >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> justice, >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> forgiveness with weakness, and peace with cowardice. >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> These >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> are >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> the >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> places >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> where >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> unholy men wage holy wars against unarmed civilians, >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> pitching >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Muslims >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> against >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> other Muslims. >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> "ImagineÃÆ'‚ the state of mind of the person >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> who >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> wore a suicide vest and boarded the bus carrying >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> young >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> women [on >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> June >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> 15 >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> in >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Quetta] whose bright faces were lit with the pride >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> of >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> being >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> educated. >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> There was >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> no reason to attack these innocent women who were >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> unarmed >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> and >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> unrelated >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> to >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> any >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> conflict. But that did not deter the suicide >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> bomberÃÆ'‚ >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> who >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> proceeded >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> to >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> kill >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> them and herselfÃÆ'‚ in a suicide attack." >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> "A >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Group Of Men Chanted With Pride 'Allah-u-Akbar'..., >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Eulogizing >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> The >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Female >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Suicide Bomber For Killing [Female Students]"; "This >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Was >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> All >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Done >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> In >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> The Name Of Islam; This Will Be Repeated Sooner Than >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Later; Some >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Would >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Argue >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> This Is Not The 'Real' Islam" >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> "Moments >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> before the blast, the young women were ignorant of >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> the >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> pain that >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> would >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> soon be >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> inflicted on them. They must [have been] smiling and >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> talking to >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> their >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> friends, >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> planning for the rest of the day and for what lay >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> ahead in >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> their >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> lives. >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> The >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> suicide bomber looked at the faces of the women who, >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> if >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> given >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> the >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> opportunity, >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> would most certainly have improved the plight of >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> their >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> impoverished >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> nation...." >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> "Somewhere >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> in or near Quetta, a group of men chanted with >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> pride, >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> 'Allah-u-Akbar' >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> (God >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> is >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> great), eulogizing the female suicide bomber for >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> killing >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> the >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> very >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> women >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> [students] who held the most promise for Pakistan. >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Their >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> spokesperson >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> called >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> the news outlets to claim responsibility for the >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> attack >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> on >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> unarmed >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> women. >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Later, at the Bolan Medical Complex in Quetta, >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> another >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> group of >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> men, >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> armed >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> with >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> AK-47 and wearing suicide vests, engaged the >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> security >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> personnel >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> in >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> a >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> standoff >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> that left several more dead, including four nurses >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> who >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> were >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> attending >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> to >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> the >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> wounded from the earlier blast. >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> "This was all done in the name of Islam. This >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> will be repeated sooner than later. Some would argue >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> this >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> is not >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> the >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> 'real' >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Islam. Does it really matter what real Islam is when >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> its >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> true >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> followers >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> cannot >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> stand against those who use religion to commit >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> genocide?" >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> ÃÆ'‚ >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> Endnote: >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> [1] Dawn.com (Pakistan), June 17, 2013. The original >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> English of >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> the article has been lightly edited for clarity and >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> standardization. >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> removed] >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> >> > >> > > >> >> >> > >> > >> > > >> >> >> > >> > >> > > >> >> >> > >> > >> > > >> >> >> > >> > >> > > >> >> >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> > >> > > >> >> >> > >> > >> > > >> >> >> > >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> > >> > > >> >> > >> > >> > > >> >> > >> > >> > > >> >> > >> > >> > > >> >> >> > >> > > >> > >> > >> > > >> > >> > >> > > >> > >> > >> > > >> >> > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> > >> > >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> > >> >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > > > ------------------------------------ Post message: prole...@egroups.com Subscribe : proletar-subscr...@egroups.com Unsubscribe : proletar-unsubscr...@egroups.com List owner : proletar-ow...@egroups.com Homepage : http://proletar.8m.com/Yahoo! 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