Dear Reza, Kayaknya, Yesus itu guru agama, pendakwah, tapi ajarannya memberi penafsiran baru atas apa yang selama itu dianggap benar oleh umat, makanya banyak para ulama yang benci dia. Dia dianggap mengajarkan ajaran sesat dan membahayakan iman umat saat itu.
Bayangkan, Yesus mengajarkan umat untuk memanggil/ menganggap Allah sebagai Bapak/ Ayah. Ini khan ajaran keren dan radikal banget. Allah Sang Pencipta dan Maha Kuasa kok dipanggil Babe ... makanya ada yang gak suka ... terutama ya para ulama itu. Para ulama Yahudi waktu itu terkejut dan marah, mereka bilang ajaran Yesus menghujat Allah. Seandainya saat itu sudah ada ulama Islam/ MUI, pasti mereka juga marah dan mengeluarkan fatwa ... ach sudah lah ... Sepertinya Yesus cukup ngetop, kaya Uje dan Jokowi gitu. kemana-mana diikuti orang yang mau mendengar ajarannya atau sekedar jabat tangan berphoto dengannya. Mungkin Yesus dapat rejeki dari para murid atau fans-nya, ala kadarnya, cukup buat beli moge dan rumah di daerah elit. Dan jangan lupa, Yesus katanya punya keahlian menggandakan roti ... jadi soal makan nggak khawatir ... :-) Tapi menurut kisah yang saya baca Yesus pernah bilang : srigala punya sarang tetapi aku nggak punya rumah ... kacian ya ... numpang dimana Dia ? Kenapa nanyain rezeki orang ? Lho, kita khan sedang bicara soal biografi nabi, yang dibicarakan dalam biografi biasanya : lahir dimana, sekolahnya dimana, hobbynya apa, istrinya siapa, anaknya berapa, pekerjaannya apa, gajinya berapa, ajarannya keren apa enggak ? Gitu khan ? Salam, Guba --- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, "rezameutia" <rezameutia@...> wrote: > > > Pekerjaan nabi muhammad adalah pendakwah. Sama lah dengan nabi2 lain yang > berdakwah juga. Hanya saja bedanya dengan nabi lainnya, nabi Muhammad > disamping pendakwah juga panglima perang ulung. > > Yang jelas Nabi Muhammad orangnya sederhana, rumahnya sederhana berada di > mesjid nabawi yang didirikan atas gotong royong umatnya, dan pada saat > meninggal hanya punya beberapa helai baju dan uang 2 dirham. > > Emangnya lo tau, gimana tuhan jesus dan pengikutnya mencari rezeki untuk > hidup sehari-hari pada waktu mereka hidup 2,000 tahun yang lalu? > Trus, jesus rumahnya punya rumah nggak? > > Pertanyaan kok nanyain rezeki orang yang hidup ribuan tahun yang lalu? > > > > > > > > --- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, "meduguba" <meduguba@> wrote: > > > > Dear Reza, > > > > Menurut biografi yang Anda baca, apakah pekerjaan Nabi Muhammad SAW ? > > Bagaimana cara Beliau dan para pengikutnya mencari rezeki untuk hidup > > sehari-hari ? > > > > Salam, Guba > > > > --- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, "rezameutia" <rezameutia@> wrote: > > > > > > Tentu gw udah baca dong biografi nabi Muhammad, bukannya 'kalo' lagi > > > seperti omongan lo yang dogol. > > > > > > Gw kan kalo ngomong berdasarkan buku, bukannya asal nguap seperti elo dan > > > gerombolan kristen dogol yang cuman copas dari website sampah seperti > > > 'answering islam' atau 'faithfreedom'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, itemabu2 <itemabu2@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Apa lu pernah baca biografi nabi bejad lu? Kl pernah, pasti lu tau > > > > nabi lu itu ngembat anak ingusan, ngerampok, ngebantai dsb. > > > > > > > > Apa mungkin lu bacanya pake "mikir", yg ga sesuai dgn kemauan lu lu > > > > buang begitu aja? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 7/2/13, rezameutia <rezameutia@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Memang jelas ada perbedaan besar antara alkitab dan al quran. > > > > > > > > > > Perbedaaannya alkitab bukan hanya dengan al quran, tapi dengan > > > > > seluruh kitab > > > > > suci agama lain juga alkitab memang berbeda besar. > > > > > > > > > > Alkitab isinya cabul, ini yang merupakan perbedaan yang mendasar > > > > > diantara > > > > > kitab suci agama lainnya di dunia. Kisah INCEST di alkitab hanya > > > > > merupakan > > > > > salah satu dari cerita2 cabul lainnya di alkitab. > > > > > > > > > > Toh pada kenyataannya, lo cuman muter2 ngomong apologetik tentang > > > > > kejadian > > > > > INCEST di alkitab ini. Kemarin lo mengatakan Nabi Lot adalah tukang > > > > > minum > > > > > dan pemabuk, sekarang lo ngomong anak perempuannya yang salah. > > > > > > > > > > Kitab suci agama di seluruh dunia, udah pasti yang namanya nabi adalah > > > > > manusia pilihan tuhan dan mempunyai perilaku dan pribadi yang baik. > > > > > Makanya, tentu saja berbeda dengan alkitab yang menghina nabi dengan > > > > > melakukan perbuatan bejat INCEST, > > > > > > > > > > Atau ketika Nabi Daud ngembat istri orang lain dengan mengirim > > > > > suaminya Uria > > > > > (?) maju ke medan perang. Dan juga ketika putra Daud Annon memperkosa > > > > > saudara perempuannya sendiri. > > > > > > > > > > Ini kan jelas merupakan penghinaan terhadap Nabi dan keluarganya > > > > > diceritakan > > > > > di alkitab sebagai keluarga bajingan tengik, rapist, gila sex. > > > > > > > > > > Mana ada kitab suci agama lain yang menghina nabinya seperti alkitab? > > > > > > > > > > Nabi Muhammad tidak mungkin melakukan perbuatan bejat seperti > > > > > merampok, > > > > > melecehkan perempuan, atau bahkan membunuh. Biografi nabi Muhammad > > > > > tertulis > > > > > dengan lengkap dan jelas, dari sejak kecil hingga beliau wafat. > > > > > > > > > > Seperti gw sering bilang, lo dan kristen2 dogol nggak bisa menunjukkan > > > > > kelemahan ajaran Islam dan al quran lalu mengarang cerita sayur > > > > > tentang Nabi > > > > > Muhammad dan copas2 berita tentang kriminal di negara Pakistan, > > > > > Afghan, dan > > > > > negara lainnya. > > > > > > > > > > Gw ngomong tentang alkitab dan ajaran goblok penuh dogma seperti > > > > > trinitas, > > > > > dosa waris. Sekarang lo tunjukkan kelemahan ajaran Islam dan al > > > > > quran. > > > > > Apple to apple. Ngerti goblok?! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, Gabriella Rantau <gkrantau@> wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >> Bang Reza, ada perbedaan besar & jelas antara Alkitab dan Al Qur'an. > > > > >> Alkitab menyampaikan ajaran a.l. dengan membeberkan perbuatan yg baik > > > > >> sebagai teladan, dan juga perbuatan yg jahat, mesum sebagai > > > > >> peringatan > > > > >> agar tidak dilakukan umat Kristiani. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> Al Qur'an mengajar Muslim untuk mengikuti perkataan, perbuatan, dan > > > > >> teladan Nabi Muhamamad. Sayangnya banyak perbuatan Sang Nabi yg tidak > > > > >> baik, yg mesum, yg seharusnya tidak ditiru. > > > > >> > > > > >> Nah, dlm hal Lot dan anak2 perempuannya kita baca bhw kedua anak > > > > >> perempuan > > > > >> itu menginginkan agar garis keturunan ayahnya dapat langgeng. Caranya > > > > >> dengan tidur dengan ayahnya sendiri dan mengakibatkan keduanya > > > > >> mengandung. > > > > >> Ini jelas tidaankan mesum dan dosa. Anak keturunan dari kedua > > > > >> perempuan > > > > >> itu terbukti mendapat kutukan dari Tuhan-Allah Israel. Sekali lagi > > > > >> ini > > > > >> bukan salah si ayah tapi dosa anak2 perempuannya yg meskipun > > > > >> beritikat > > > > >> baik tapi melanggar hukum agama mereka. > > > > >> > > > > >> Muslim selalu ingin melakukan apa yg dilakukan dan diktakan oleh Nabi > > > > >> Muhammad. Misalnya, meleceha > > > > >> kan kaum perempuan,. Merampok, berdusta, membunuh dan juga menyuruh > > > > >> pengikutnya membunuh pengritik beliau. SangNabi juga meniduri Aisha > > > > >> yg > > > > >> baru umur 9 tahun (setibngkat deg murid kelas 2 SD). Muslim bercita2 > > > > >> dapat > > > > >> mengikuti teladan ini. > > > > >> . > > > > >> > > > > >> Kembali mengenai ketentuan Auloh bhw Islam dan Nabi Muhammad itu > > > > >> hanya > > > > >> untuk penduduk Mekkah dan sekitarnya dapat anda baca sendiri di Surat > > > > >> An'am 6:92. Perkara Nabi Muhammad dan preman2 pengikutnya menyerbu > > > > >> suku2 > > > > >> Yahudi dan di Yathrib dan merampok serta membunuh mereka(dan > > > > >> mengusir yg > > > > >> tidak sempat dibunuh) ini jelas melanggar ajaran Qur'an sendiri. > > > > >> > > > > >> Memang Islam dlm kurun waktu kurang dari 100 tahun berhasil > > > > >> mengalahkan, > > > > >> menundukkan dan menjajah bangsa2 di sekitar Semenanjung Arabia ini > > > > >> kenyataan. Anehnya mnrt Al Qur'an Muslim hanya dibolehkan berperang > > > > >> kalau > > > > >> mereka diserang lebih dulu karena agamanya dan diusir dari kampung > > > > >> halamannya. Apa artinya ini? Mnrt Qur'an Muslim tidak boleh menjadi > > > > >> agresor. Tapi apa yg terjadi sejak Hijarah, Muslim menyerang Mesir, > > > > >> Persia, Iraq, turki, India, pantai utara Afrika bahkan mereka juga > > > > >> sempat > > > > >> merampok Roma dan menjajah semenanjung IBeria (Al Andalus). > > > > >> > > > > >> Ingat bangsa2 yg diserang dan diperbudak oleh Islam iniTIDAK pernah > > > > >> menyerang Nabi Muhammad ataupun para pengikutnya. Jadi Muslim sejak > > > > >> zaman > > > > >> Sang Nabi adalah penyerang, agressors yg keji. And mungkin pernah > > > > >> baca > > > > >> sejarah Perang 6 Hari. Di mana negara yahudi Israel diserang, > > > > >> dikerubut > > > > >> oleh 7 negara Islami - tanpa alasan kecuali ajaran kebencian yg > > > > >> ditanampkan oleh Islam thdp umat Yahudi. Alhamdulillah, ke-7 > > > > >> penyerbu, > > > > >> penyerang Islam ini kalaha hanya dlm waktu 6 hari. Negara2 ini > > > > >> akibatnya > > > > >> kehilangan berbagai wilayahnya. > > > > >> > > > > >> Muslim dari banyak negara Islami pergi ke negara2 kafir untuk minta > > > > >> visa > > > > >> perlindungan. JutaanMuslim dari Afrika, Mesir, Iran, Iraq, > > > > >> Afghanistan, > > > > >> Sudan, Pakistan dsb. berbondong2 menyelundupkan diri ke negara Barat > > > > >> (kafir). Mengapa mereka tideak bahagia tinggal di negeri2 yg Islami > > > > >> yg > > > > >> katanya mengikuti Syariah Islam yg jitu. Ini juga bukti nyata bhw > > > > >> Islam > > > > >> bukanlah rahmatan il alamin tetapi justru sebaliknya menjadi mush > > > > >> dunia > > > > >> beradab dan benalu penghisap kebaikan hati bangsa2 yg beragama > > > > >> setidaknya > > > > >> beradaban kristiani. > > > > >> > > > > >> Coba renungkan sejenak. > > > > >> > > > > >> Gabriella > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> ________________________________ > > > > >> > > > > >> To: proletar@yahoogroups.com > > > > >> Sent: Sunday, 30 June 2013 9:31 AM > > > > >> Subject: Agama yg kompatibel dg akal? Re: [proletar] Re: Islam at > > > > >> war with > > > > >> itself! > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> à > > > > >> Hehehe... > > > > >> > > > > >> Setelah lo ngibul kemarin tentang nabi lot yang tukang minum dan > > > > >> pemabuk, > > > > >> sekarang lo masih juga muke tebel mau ngibul lagi tentang quran. > > > > >> > > > > >> Entah lo itu memang dogol asli atau memang tukang kibul muka tebal > > > > >> yang > > > > >> nggak tau malu, tapi yang udah jelas sih lo itu agamanya kristen. > > > > >> > > > > >> Seperti udah sering gw bilang, al quran itu untuk orang yang > > > > >> berpikir. > > > > >> Makanya, ajaran islam tidak sama seperti ajaran kristen yang penuh > > > > >> dogma. > > > > >> > > > > >> Jadi, kalo lo ngomong bawa2 ayat bahwa islam hanya untuk orang2 di > > > > >> mekkah > > > > >> dan sekitarnya kenyataannya islam lalu berkembang ke Medinah, lalu > > > > >> berkembang ke seluruh jazirah arab, lalu islam berkembang lagi ke > > > > >> seluruh > > > > >> penjuru dunia. > > > > >> > > > > >> Kenyataannya yang tidak bisa dipungkiri bahwa agama islam menyebar ke > > > > >> seluruh penjuru dunia dan sampe sekarang malahan islam berkembang > > > > >> pesat > > > > >> melebihi agama2 lainnya di dunia. > > > > >> > > > > >> Dalam islam itu ada tingkatan yang disebut rasul, nabi, auliya, > > > > >> wali, > > > > >> yang bisa aja berasal dari penduduk setempat yang menyebarkan dan > > > > >> mengajarkan islam sesuai dengan kebudayaannya masing2. > > > > >> > > > > >> Ayat2 yang tertulis di al quran berhubungan dan saling terkait satu > > > > >> sama > > > > >> lainnya. Kalo lo sudah terbiasa membaca alkitab yang penuh dogma > > > > >> karena > > > > >> nggak pake akal tentunya lo nggak akan bisa ngerti quran yang > > > > >> membacanya > > > > >> harus pake akal. > > > > >> > > > > >> --- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, Gabriella Rantau <gkrantau@> wrote: > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Memang bener Islam sesuai dengan kebudayaan setempat. Tepatnya > > > > >> > sesuai dg > > > > >> > budaya dan adat-istiadat Mekkah dan mereka yg tinggal di sekitar > > > > >> > Ummul > > > > >> > qura! > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Kalian harus mengakui bhw Qur'an diturunkan khusus untuk Mekkah dan > > > > >> > sekitarnya. Nabi Muhammad juga dipilih oleh Auloh khusus untuk > > > > >> > orang2 > > > > >> > Arab yg bermukim di Mekkah dan sekitarnya.Sebelum ada yg mau > > > > >> > berdusta > > > > >> > (ber-Al Taqiyya) Auloh mnyatakan bhw 'kepada setiap umat-bangsa > > > > >> > dikirim > > > > >> > seorang nabi yg berasal dari suku-bangsa tsb.' Supaya nabi > > > > >> > setempat itu > > > > >> > dpt menyampaikan perintahAuloh dlm bahasa setempat yg tentunya > > > > >> > dimengerti orang setempat dan yg tahu adat-istiadat, budaya > > > > >> > setempat. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Inilah yg tertulis dlm Al Qur'an Karim. Tidak ada perintah Auloh > > > > >> > agar > > > > >> > Islam disesuaikan dengan budaya Aceh, Minang ataupun Jawa. Kalau > > > > >> > sampai > > > > >> > ada penyesuaian ajaran Islam dg budaya, adat setempat di > > > > >> > luarMekkah, > > > > >> > maka ini sudah jelas melanggar perintah Auloh. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Gabriella > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > ________________________________ > > > > >> > From: rezameutia <rezameutia@> > > > > >> > To: proletar@yahoogroups.com > > > > >> > Sent: Friday, 28 June 2013 7:46 PM > > > > >> > Subject: Agama yg kompatibel dg akal? Re: [proletar] Re: Islam at > > > > >> > war > > > > >> > with itself! > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Ãâà > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > --- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, itemabu2 <itemabu2@> wrote: > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > Hehehe... kapan Islam hrs ngikut adat setempat? Coba tunjukin > > > > >> > > ayat > > > > >> > > mana yg bilang spt itu? > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Lah..., kan gw udah bilang, Islam di Indonesia, Islam di Pakistan, > > > > >> > Islam > > > > >> > di Arab, semuanya beda2 berdasarkan adat istiadat setempat. Cuma > > > > >> > aqidah > > > > >> > nya tetep sama Islam di seluruh dunia. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Gini deh tem..., gw nggak usah jauh2 ngomong perbedaan Islam di > > > > >> > luar > > > > >> > negeri deh. Susah sih ngomong ama kristen dogol kayak eloy ang > > > > >> > kapasitas otaknya terbatas. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Islam di Jawa jelas berbeda dengan Islam di Minang. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Islam di Jawa patriarch, Islam di Minang matriarch. > > > > >> > Islam di Jawa berziarah ke makam, Islam di Minang nggak pernah > > > > >> > ziarah > > > > >> > kubur. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Ini kan udah jelas, adat istiadat Jawa dan Minang berbeda tapi > > > > >> > agamanya > > > > >> > tetap sama, Islam. Jadi, memang Islam itu udah jelas beradaptasi > > > > >> > ngikutin adat istiadat setempat. Ngerti nggak, njing..?? > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > Lu kan ngaku secara implisit bhw Quran bilang kesaksian cewek > > > > >> > > itu 1/2 > > > > >> > > dr kesaksian cowok. Emangnya lalu orang bisa buang ayat QUran > > > > >> > > itu unt > > > > >> > > diganti dgn hukum lain yg lbh masuk akal? > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > Kl gitu, ayat Quran yg bilang kesaksian cewek 1/2 dr kesaksian > > > > >> > > cowok > > > > >> > > itu ga masuk akal, bukan? > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > Dan lu milih2 ayat spy bisa lu sesuaikan dgn adat setempat. > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > Silakan aja lu kaing2 ttg 65:4, tafsir bilang persis spt yg gua > > > > >> > > bilang. > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Gw udah bilang, kesaksian cewek 1/2 dari kesaksian cowok bisa aja > > > > >> > terjadi di negara arab ato di afghanistan, tapi yang jelas > > > > >> > kesaksian > > > > >> > cewek di Indonesia sama aja dengan kesaksian cowok. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Cuman kan, lo dan gerombolan kristen anjing dogol kagak punya otak > > > > >> > sering copas kejadian berita di arab, di pakistan, di afghanistan > > > > >> > mulu. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Udah deh, lo kasih aja ayat 65:4, lalu lo bahas dan debat langsung > > > > >> > sama > > > > >> > gw disini pake pemikiran lo sendiri yang orisinal. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > Lu ga mau ngikutin tafsir, Quran dan sunnah, itu artinya lu bukan > > > > >> > > muslim yg mukmin. > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Ya memang beda gw sama elo. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Gw, di agama Islam, musti dipake otaknya. Segala macem keputusan > > > > >> > musti > > > > >> > dipertimbangkan baik dan buruknya, istilah Islamnya 'manfaat dan > > > > >> > mudharatnya'. Setelah melalui pertimbangan yang matang barulah > > > > >> > keputusan diambil. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Lo kan memang kristen sejati, kristen yang taat dan selalu > > > > >> > mengikuti > > > > >> > perintah alkitab. Makanya lo tega ngembat ibu lo sendiri, lo halal > > > > >> > ngebuntingin anak lo sendiri, karena itu kan sesuai dengan perintah > > > > >> > alkitab yang penuh dogma. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Bener gitu kan, tem? > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Hehehe... > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > On 6/27/13, rezameutia <rezameutia@> wrote: > > > > >> > > > Coba > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > --- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, itemabu2 <itemabu2@> wrote: > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> Lu ga pernah mau ngaku apa isi 65:4. > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > Ah.., omongan lo muter2 mulu kayak anjing lagi ngejar ekornya. > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > Dulu kan ayat 65:4 ini udah pernah dibahas kalo lo sekarang > > > > >> > > > mau > > > > >> > > > ngebahas > > > > >> > > > lagi, silahkan aja kasih ayat ini dan ngebahas lagi tentang > > > > >> > > > masa > > > > >> > > > iddah itu. > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > >> Hehehe... jadi lu ngaku bhw Quran bilang kesaksian cewek itu > > > > >> > > >> 1/2 > > > > >> > > >> dr > > > > >> > > >> kesaksian cowok, bukan? > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> Kalo misal ada negara muslim yg ga melaksanakan konsep itu, > > > > >> > > >> itu > > > > >> > > >> sih > > > > >> > > >> cuma sekedar milih2 ayat yg ga disukai unt ga diterapkan. > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> Knp ayat yg bilang kesaksian cewek 1/2 dr kesaksian cowok itu > > > > >> > > >> ga > > > > >> > > >> diterapkan? Jawabnya adalah krn ga masuk akal krn ga sesuai > > > > >> > > >> dgn > > > > >> > > >> fakta, > > > > >> > > >> melecehkan cewek dan nindas cewek. > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> Betul ga yg gua bilang? > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> Lu tanya ajaran Islam mana yg ga masuk akal, gua udah ngasih > > > > >> > > >> contohnya > > > > >> > > >> unt ngebuktikan kebenaran omongan gua. > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > Mana ada yang bener omongan manusiia berotak kosong dan > > > > >> > > > bermental > > > > >> > > > anjing > > > > >> > > > kayak elo? > > > > >> > > > Gw kan udah kasih jawaban dibawah tuh tentang kesaksian > > > > >> > > > perempuan > > > > >> > > > di > > > > >> > > > Indonesia, artinya Islam sebagai agama universal beradaptasi > > > > >> > > > dengan > > > > >> > > > adat > > > > >> > > > istiadat setempat. > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > Makanya orang Islam di Arab, orang Islam di Pakistan, orang > > > > >> > > > Islam > > > > >> > > > di > > > > >> > > > Amerika, orang Islam di Indonesia, semuanya berbeda karena adat > > > > >> > > > istiadatnyanya berbeda. > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > Kristen2 dogol kayak elo selalu copas berita2 dari Arab, > > > > >> > > > Pakistan, > > > > >> > > > Aghan, > > > > >> > > > dan bilang Islam itu sama. > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > >> Kl lu mau kaing2 tentang Alkitab, silakan aja lu terusin > > > > >> > > >> kaing2 > > > > >> > > >> lu. > > > > >> > > >> Gua ga hrs ngelayanin kaing2 dr anjing buduk kejepit buntut. > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > Bagus deh... > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > Artinya lo mengakui bahwa alkitab isinya cabul dan sesat, > > > > >> > > > makanya lo > > > > >> > > > halal > > > > >> > > > ngembat ibu lo sendiri, halal ngembat anak sendiri seperti > > > > >> > > > anjing > > > > >> > > > seperti > > > > >> > > > perintah di alkitab. Hehehe.... > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > Memang bukan cuma lo aja kok yang ngacir kalo membahas ayat2 di > > > > >> > > > alkitab yang > > > > >> > > > cabul dan sesat. Pendeta nub aja nggak berani membantah bahwa > > > > >> > > > alkitab > > > > >> > > > memang cabul dan sesat kok... > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > >> BUat gua, semakin sering lu kaing2 spt itu, semakin kliatan > > > > >> > > >> betapa > > > > >> > > >> dungunya anjing2 buduk piaraan orang Islam spt suryana dan > > > > >> > > >> Teddy. > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> On 6/26/13, rezameutia <rezameutia@> wrote: > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > --- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, itemabu2 <itemabu2@> wrote: > > > > >> > > >> >> > > > > >> > > >> >> Ngasih masa iddah ke cewek ingusan yg blm mens itu masuk > > > > >> > > >> >> akal > > > > >> > > >> >> ga? > > > > >> > > >> >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > Mana ada yang disebut 'masa iddah ke cewe ingusan yang blom > > > > >> > > >> > mens'? > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > Ini kan cuman opini goblok lo aja. > > > > >> > > >> > Udah pernah kan lo berdebat dengan gw tentang masa iddah > > > > >> > > >> > bukan > > > > >> > > >> > untuk > > > > >> > > >> > cewe > > > > >> > > >> > ingusan, tapi lo tetep aja dengan pikiran opini dogol lo > > > > >> > > >> > nganggap > > > > >> > > >> > masa > > > > >> > > >> > iddah > > > > >> > > >> > adalah cewe ingusan yang blom mens. > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > Lo bisa browsing di internet yang namanya masa iddah... > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> >> Kesaksian cewek 1/2 dr kesaksiakn cowok masuk akal ga? > > > > >> > > >> >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > Kenyataannya, saksi cw nggak kayak gitu di negara Muslim, > > > > >> > > >> > dan > > > > >> > > >> > juga > > > > >> > > >> > negara > > > > >> > > >> > muslim terbesar di dunia seperti di Indonesia, semua saksi > > > > >> > > >> > cewe > > > > >> > > >> > harganya > > > > >> > > >> > sama dengan saksi cowo. > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > Lha.., kok lo ngacir ketika ditanya tentang ayat2 di > > > > >> > > >> > alkitab yang > > > > >> > > >> > cabul > > > > >> > > >> > dan > > > > >> > > >> > sesat, tem? Karena tidak ada orang kristen dan bahkan > > > > >> > > >> > pendeta > > > > >> > > >> > kristen > > > > >> > > >> > yang > > > > >> > > >> > membantah hal itu, artinya lo mengakui bahwa alkitab itu > > > > >> > > >> > cabul > > > > >> > > >> > dan > > > > >> > > >> > sesat > > > > >> > > >> > ya? > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> >> > > > > >> > > >> >> > > > > >> > > >> >> On 6/25/13, rezameutia <rezameutia@> wrote: > > > > >> > > >> >> > Yang mana ajaran Islam yang nggak masuk akal? > > > > >> > > >> >> > > > > > >> > > >> >> > Hadis memang musti dipilih2 karena orang Islam tau ada > > > > >> > > >> >> > hadis > > > > >> > > >> >> > palsu > > > > >> > > >> >> > dan > > > > >> > > >> >> > hadis > > > > >> > > >> >> > sahih. Itu yang gw bilang musti dipake akalnya. > > > > >> > > >> >> > > > > > >> > > >> >> > Beda dengan elo dan kristen dogol yang nggak dipake > > > > >> > > >> >> > akalnya. > > > > >> > > >> >> > Tertulis > > > > >> > > >> >> > di > > > > >> > > >> >> > alkitab halal ngembat ibu sendiri, lo embat ibu lo > > > > >> > > >> >> > sendiri, > > > > >> > > >> >> > halal > > > > >> > > >> >> > ngembat > > > > >> > > >> >> > anak sendiri, lo embat anak lo sendiri sampe bunting. > > > > >> > > >> >> > Halal > > > > >> > > >> >> > memperkosa > > > > >> > > >> >> > adik > > > > >> > > >> >> > lo sendiri, lo perkosa adik lo juga. Memang agama > > > > >> > > >> >> > kristen > > > > >> > > >> >> > penuh > > > > >> > > >> >> > dengan > > > > >> > > >> >> > dogma, seperti diakui oleh tawangalun asli kok. > > > > >> > > >> >> > > > > > >> > > >> >> > Lalu, apa bedanya lo sama anjing tem? > > > > >> > > >> >> > > > > > >> > > >> >> > > > > > >> > > >> >> > > > > > >> > > >> >> > > > > > >> > > >> >> > > > > > >> > > >> >> > --- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, itemabu2 <itemabu2@> > > > > >> > > >> >> > wrote: > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > > > > >> > > >> >> >> Si reza ngaku di milis ini bhw dia pilih2 hadis yg > > > > >> > > >> >> >> sesuai > > > > >> > > >> >> >> seleranya, > > > > >> > > >> >> >> artinya hadis yg ga dipilih itu kalo bukannya dia ga > > > > >> > > >> >> >> suka ya > > > > >> > > >> >> >> dia > > > > >> > > >> >> >> anggap ga masuk akal. Dgn sendirinya, ayat QUran jg > > > > >> > > >> >> >> diperlakukan > > > > >> > > >> >> >> sama > > > > >> > > >> >> >> spt hadis, jg ajaran Islam yg ada di syariat iblisnya. > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > > > > >> > > >> >> >> Ngakunya sih agamanya itu kompatibel dg akal, padahal > > > > >> > > >> >> >> yg tjd > > > > >> > > >> >> >> adalah > > > > >> > > >> >> >> agamanya disesuaikan dgn kemauannya, krn ga kompatibel. > > > > >> > > >> >> >> Hrs > > > > >> > > >> >> >> dimodifikasi. > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > > > > >> > > >> >> >> Emang dungu orang2 Islam itu. > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > > > > >> > > >> >> >> On 6/23/13, Gabriella Rantau <gkrantau@> wrote: > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > And I qooute "Islam bikin cerdas dan pilihan agama > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > harus > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > kompatibel > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > dengan > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > akal". > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > Apakah ini berarti ajaran Islam kompatibel dg akal? > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > - Agama yg mengajarkan permusuhan; > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > - Agama yg menelecehkan 50% dari manusia yaitukiaum > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > perempuan yg > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > diangap > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > deficient dlm akal; > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > - Agama yg mengamini tahayul: nabi naik Bouraq ke > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > sorga; > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > - Agama yg salah ngajarin ttg embryo development; > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > - Agama yg ngajarin ada 7 langit dan 7 bumi; > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > - Agama yg bilang bhw matahari terbenam di mataa air > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > keruh > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > di > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > ujung > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > barat > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > bumi (artinya buminya datar spt tempat tidur orang > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > bedu); > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > - Agama yg ajarannya saling bertentangan. Misalnya: > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > agamamu > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > bagi > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > mu > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > dst. > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > tapi bunuhlah mereka yg tidak percaya pd Alah dan > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > Nabi dan > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > puluhan > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > lainnya. > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > - Kalau hal2 di atas mnrt anda kompatibel dg akal, > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > maka aku > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > pikir > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > akalnya yg > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > kurang waras dan sekedar akal2n. > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > Gabriella > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > PS > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > Tanya pd diri anda kenapa jutaan Muslim berbondong2 > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > ingin > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > bernaung > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > di > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > negara2 kafir? > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > ________________________________ > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > From: rezameutia <rezameutia@> > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > To: proletar@yahoogroups.com > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > Sent: Sunday, 23 June 2013 5:38 PM > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > Subject: [proletar] Re: Islam at war with itself! > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > Si gabby lagi ngayal... > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Kalau keadaan spt ini berlangsung dlm dekade2 > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> mendatang, > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> maka > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> tidak > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> mustahil kalau Islam akan hancur dari dalam. Islam > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> might > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> implode > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> without > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> any interference from any outside agencies. > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > Padahal udah jelas menurut Pew Research, Islam adalah > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > agama > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > yang > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > paling > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > bersinar dan Kristen agama yang meredup ditinggalkan > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > pengikutnya. > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > Semuanya udah jelas, ajaran goblok yang penuh dogma > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > akan > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > ditinggalkan > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > pengikutnya karena manusia udah semakin cerdas dan > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > pilihan > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > agama > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > harus > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > kompatibel dengan akal. > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > --- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, Gabriella Rantau > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > <gkrantau@> > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > wrote: > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> FYI: article dari Pakistan yg menarik yg menunjukkan > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Muslim > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> saling > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> memushi > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Muslim. Balas dendam dianggap sebagai keadilan. > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Memaafkan > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> dianggap > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> sebagai > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> kelemahan! Kalau keadaan spt ini berlangsung dlm > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> dekade2 > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> mendatang, > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> maka > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> tidak mustahil kalau Islam akan hancur dari dalam. > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Islam > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> might > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> implode > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> without any interference from any outside agencies. > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Gabriella > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> June 20, 2013 hancurSpecial Dispatch No.5342 > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Article In Pakistani > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Daily ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬" 'Islam At War > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬" With > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Itself': 'Muslim Societies > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Have... > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Evolved > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Into Places Where Revenge Is Confused With Justice, > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Forgiveness > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> With > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Weakness, And Peace With Cowardice' > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Pakistan and many Islamic countries are witnessing > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> targeted > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> killings of Shia Muslims by Sunni jihadi forces such > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> as > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> the > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Taliban > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> and > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Al-Qaeda (image courtesy: shiapost.om) > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Given below are excerpts from an article that > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> appeared in > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> a > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> leading > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Pakistani daily following the June 15, 2013 terror > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> attacks > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> in > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Quetta, > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> the > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> capital of Pakistan's Baluchistan province, where a > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> female > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> suicide > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> bomber > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> attacked a bus carrying female students and later the > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> militants > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> laid > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> siege > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> to a > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> medical complex where the injured were being treated. > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> The article, titled "Islam at War > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬" With > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Itself" by prominent commentator Murtaza Haider, was > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> published > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> by > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Dawn, > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> a > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> liberal Pakistani newspaper. In it, Haider argues > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> that > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> the > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> debate > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> in the Islamic world focuses on the conflicts where > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Muslims are > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> oppressed > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> by > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> non-Muslims, while conveniently failing to raise a > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> debate > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> as to > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> why > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Muslims are > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> killing Muslims. > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Following are excerpts from the article:[1] > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> "From Aleppo In Syria To Quetta In Baluchistan, > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Muslims > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Are > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Engaged In The Slaughter Of Other Muslims"; "Many > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Wonder > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> If The > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Belief In Islam Is Sufficient To Bind Muslims In > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Peace > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> With Each > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Other" > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> "From Aleppo in Syria to Quetta in > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Baluchistan, Muslims are engaged in the slaughter of > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> other > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Muslims. > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> The > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> numbers > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> are enormous:ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ over > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> 93,000 killed in the Syrian civil warÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> andÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ over > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> 48,000 dead in Pakistan [since 2004]. > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> "Millions > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> have perished in similar intra-Muslim conflicts in > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> the > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> past four > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> decades. > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Many > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> wonder if the belief in Islam is sufficient to bind > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Muslims in > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> peace > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> with > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> each > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> other. > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> "Since > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> the end of the Second World War, the world has moved > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> in > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> two > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> distinct > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> directions. The West, mostly Christian, has tried to > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> minimize > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> the > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> intra-European conflict and has largely been > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> successful > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> with > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> some > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> exceptions. > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> The Muslim world, on the other hand, has fallen into > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> one > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> violent > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> conflict > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> after > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> another, involving mostly Muslims. > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> "Several > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> intra-Muslim conflicts continue to simmer as proxy > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> wars. > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> In the > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> '80s, > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> the > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Iran-Iraq war alone left millions dead. More > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> recently, a > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> car > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> bomb > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> in > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Iraq > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> on > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Sunday [June 16, 2013] killed another 39 in the > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> sectarian > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> warfare > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> between > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> the > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Shias and Sunnis that killedÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ at least > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> 1,045 in May > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> 2013." > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> "The > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Overwhelming Evidence... Suggests That The Sectarian > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> And > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Tribal > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Divisions > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Amongst Muslims And Justifying Violence In The Name > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Of > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Religion > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Are > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> The > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Primary > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Causes Of Why Islam Is At War With Itself" > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> "As the > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> violence amongst Muslims increases, most Muslims > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> prefer > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> denial, > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> or > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> look > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> for scapegoats. > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Those in denial believe no such violence exists and > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> the > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> entire > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> issue > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> is > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> made up > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> by the Western-controlled media. Others blame it on > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> scapegoats > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬" > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Indians > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> and > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Americans are the most frequently blamed. > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> "The > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> overwhelming evidence, however, suggests that the > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> sectarian and > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> tribal > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> divisions amongst Muslims and justifying violence in > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> the > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> name of > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> religion > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> are > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> the primary causes of why Islam is at war with > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> itself. > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> "In > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Pakistan, confessions and appalling claims of > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> responsibility by > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> the > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> spokespersons for the Tehreek-e-Taliban and > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Lashkar-e-Jhangvi > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> should > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> leave > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> no > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> doubt [as to] where the guilt resides. At the same > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> time, > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> the > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Pakistani > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> intelligence > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> agencies have put together incriminating evidence > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> running > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> into > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> hundreds > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> of > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> thousands of pages against the extremist sectarian > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> outfits, > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Al-Qaeda > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> affiliates, the nationalist militias in Baluchistan, > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> and > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> others > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> who > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> have > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> perpetrated indiscriminate violence against > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> civilians and > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> the > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> state > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> resulting > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> in over 48,000 deaths since 2004. > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> "The > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> hate-fuelled gulfs that divide Muslims are so wide > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> that > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> not only > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> unarmed > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> civilians, but doctors and others who try to save > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> victims > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> of > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> violence > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> are > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> also > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> targeted by the extremists.TheÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ attack on > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> the Bolan > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Medical > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> ComplexÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> on > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Saturday [June 15, 2013 in Quetta], > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> which left scores dead, including four nurses, was > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> not the > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> first > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> of > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> its > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> kind. A > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> sectarian [Shia-Sunni] attack in Karachi in February > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> 2010 > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> was > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> followed > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> by > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> aÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ bomb attack on the Jinnah Postgraduate > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Medical > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Centre HospitalÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ where > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> victims were rushed for treatment. More than 25 Shia > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Muslims > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> perished > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> in > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> the > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> two attacks." > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> "From > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> The Very First Day, Muslims Are Taught That Their > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Belief > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> In > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Islam > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Trumps > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> All > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Other Identities That They May Hold"; "Why Then, Have > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Millions > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Of > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Muslims Died At The Hands Of Their Fellow Believers?" > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> "And while > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> the Muslim-on-Muslim violence is claiming victims all > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> over > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Pakistan, > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> the > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> violence against non-Muslims, including Hindus and > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Christians, > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> often > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> brings > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> together Muslims of different stripes, who would > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> otherwise > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> be > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> fighting > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> each > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> other, in attacking religious minorities. > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> "The > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> targeted killings of university professors in > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Karachi and > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Quetta, > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> the > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> murder of > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Shia doctors and professionals, and the attacks on > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> the > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> shrines > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> of > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> patron > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> saints > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> [i.e. Sufi mystics] are all evidence of the fact that > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Muslims > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> have > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> been > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> killing > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> other Muslims while being motivated by hate and using > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Islam to > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> justify > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> violence. > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> "Why > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> is that the belief in Islam is not sufficient to > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> prevent > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> violence > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> amongst > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Muslims? > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> "From > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> the very first day, Muslims are taught that their > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> belief > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> in > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Islam > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> trumps > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> all > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> other identities that they may hold. Their skin > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> color, > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> tribe, > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> caste, > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> or > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> creed ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬" > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> none matters once they enter the fold of Islam. Why > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> then, > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> have > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> millions > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> of > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Muslims died at the hands of their fellow believers?" > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> "Political, > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Religious, And Other Leaders In The Muslim World > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Have Kept > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> The > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Dialogue > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Focused > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> On The Conflicts Where Muslims Have Been The > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Victims"; > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> "Seldom > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Has > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> The Dialogue Focused On Why Muslims Kill Other > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Muslims" > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> "Political, > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> religious, and other leaders in the Muslim world > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> have kept > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> the > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> dialogue > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> focused > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> on the conflicts where Muslims have been the > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> victims. The > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Bosnian > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> conflict, the > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> communal violence in India, which has caused the > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> death of > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> thousands > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> of > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Muslims, > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> and the Arab-Israeli conflict have been the focus of > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Muslim > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> leaders. > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> "Seldom > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> has the dialogue focused on why Muslims kill other > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Muslims. And > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> even > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> if > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> the > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> topic ever comes up, it ends up being an exercise in > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> mass > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> scapegoating. > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> "Muslim > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> societies have thus evolved into places where > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> revenge is > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> confused > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> with > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> justice, > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> forgiveness with weakness, and peace with cowardice. > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> These > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> are > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> the > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> places > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> where > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> unholy men wage holy wars against unarmed civilians, > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> pitching > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Muslims > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> against > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> other Muslims. > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> "ImagineÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ the state of mind of the person > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> who > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> wore a suicide vest and boarded the bus carrying > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> young > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> women [on > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> June > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> 15 > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> in > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Quetta] whose bright faces were lit with the pride of > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> being > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> educated. > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> There was > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> no reason to attack these innocent women who were > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> unarmed > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> and > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> unrelated > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> to > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> any > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> conflict. But that did not deter the suicide > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> bomberÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> who > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> proceeded > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> to > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> kill > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> them and herselfÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ in a suicide attack." > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> "A > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Group Of Men Chanted With Pride 'Allah-u-Akbar'..., > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Eulogizing > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> The > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Female > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Suicide Bomber For Killing [Female Students]"; "This > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Was > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> All > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Done > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> In > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> The Name Of Islam; This Will Be Repeated Sooner Than > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Later; Some > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Would > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Argue > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> This Is Not The 'Real' Islam" > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> "Moments > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> before the blast, the young women were ignorant of > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> the > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> pain that > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> would > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> soon be > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> inflicted on them. They must [have been] smiling and > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> talking to > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> their > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> friends, > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> planning for the rest of the day and for what lay > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> ahead in > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> their > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> lives. > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> The > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> suicide bomber looked at the faces of the women who, > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> if > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> given > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> the > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> opportunity, > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> would most certainly have improved the plight of > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> their > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> impoverished > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> nation...." > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> "Somewhere > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> in or near Quetta, a group of men chanted with pride, > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> 'Allah-u-Akbar' > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> (God > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> is > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> great), eulogizing the female suicide bomber for > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> killing > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> the > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> very > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> women > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> [students] who held the most promise for Pakistan. > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Their > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> spokesperson > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> called > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> the news outlets to claim responsibility for the > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> attack > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> on > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> unarmed > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> women. > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Later, at the Bolan Medical Complex in Quetta, > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> another > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> group of > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> men, > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> armed > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> with > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> AK-47 and wearing suicide vests, engaged the security > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> personnel > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> in > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> a > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> standoff > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> that left several more dead, including four nurses > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> who > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> were > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> attending > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> to > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> the > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> wounded from the earlier blast. > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> "This was all done in the name of Islam. This > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> will be repeated sooner than later. Some would argue > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> this > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> is not > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> the > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> 'real' > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Islam. Does it really matter what real Islam is when > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> its > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> true > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> followers > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> cannot > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> stand against those who use religion to commit > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> genocide?" > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> Endnote: > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> [1] Dawn.com (Pakistan), June 17, 2013. The original > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> English of > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> the article has been lightly edited for clarity and > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> standardization. > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > >> > > >> >> >> >> > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > > > > > >> > > >> >> >> > > > > >> > > >> >> > > > > > >> > > >> >> > > > > > >> > > >> >> > > > > > >> > > >> >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Post message: prole...@egroups.com Subscribe : proletar-subscr...@egroups.com Unsubscribe : proletar-unsubscr...@egroups.com List owner : proletar-ow...@egroups.com Homepage : http://proletar.8m.com/Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: proletar-dig...@yahoogroups.com proletar-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: proletar-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
