di sini banyak orang nasrani yg pake nama asli, david silalahi, suryana, dll., mereka mau ngomong apa aja tetep aman tuh hidup di indonesia. apalagi si david salah lahir itu gua udah tau tampang blo'onnya kayak apa. kenapa mesti ati2 segala?
nah si bleki petantang petenteng nantang orang lain nyebutin identitas pribadi tapi dia sendiri ngga berani nyebutin identitas sendiri, mesti disebut apa kalo bukan pengecut sejati? --- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, "Bukan Pedanda" <bukan.pedanda@...> wrote: > Agar jelas: orang Nasrani yang berhati-hati tapi terus berusaha >mempertahankan haknya bukan orang Nasrani yang pengecut.. > > Yang pengecut itu adalah oportunis bertabit nista lagi menjijikkan seperti > anda yang berdiam diri dihadapan penindasan orang Islam terhadap minoritas > dan dihadapan ketidak adilan di Indonesia. > > --- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, "Teddy S." <teddyr@> wrote: > > > > Kalau sebelumnya itu baru berupa tuduhan, sekarang sudah terbukti > > berdasarkan hasil pengakuannya sendiri. Kurang jelas apa lagi? > > > > > > --- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, "Bukan Pedanda" <bukan.pedanda@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Persis kayak Roman Proteus yang sedeng: item abu, katanya, adalah > > > pengecut... > > > > > > Makin jelas bahwa memang banyak persamaan antara Teddy ini dengan orang > > > Islam disini... > > > > > > > > > --- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, "Teddy S." <teddyr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Pengecut!!! (ala film-film Amerika dengan diiringi nada-nada dari lagu > > > > kebangsaan Perancis, La Marseillaise). > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, item abu <itemabu@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hehehe ... gua sih ga heran kalo si Teddy bisa galak dan buas kalo > > > > > ngebela kepentingannya sendiri. Anjing jg bisa galak kalo tulangnya > > > > > mau diambil anjing lain. > > > > > > > > > > Tp si Teddy ini lebih rendah dr anjing krn ga tau malu padahal anjing > > > > > itu mash tahu malu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >________________________________ > > > > > > From: Teddy S. <teddyr@> > > > > > >To: proletar@yahoogroups.com > > > > > >Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 3:00 AM > > > > > >Subject: [proletar] Re: Definisi untuk mobil mewah (Teddy bangsat > > > > > >itu, katanya, tidak peduli..) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Apakah pejabat tersebut menyadarinya? Itu perbuatan yang sama > > > > > >sia-sianya dengan membenturkan kepala sendiri ke tembok. Saat saya > > > > > >dulu berurusan dengan pawai Pemilu Partai Golkar, rombongan tersebut > > > > > >saya kejar hingga ke markas mereka di Menteng, Jakarta. Saya temui > > > > > >kepala rombongan mereka, saya jelaskan masalahnya dan saya tuntut > > > > > >permohonan maaf dengan memberikan nama dan alamat di mana sang > > > > > >kepala rombongan berjanji untuk mengirim orang ke rumah. Itu contoh > > > > > >yang langsung bisa dirasakan pejabat terkait. Protege anda ini luar > > > > > >biasa pengecutnya. > > > > > > > > > > > >Satu hal, saya di sini bekerja dan bisa dikatakan kontribusi saya > > > > > >melebihi semua fasilitas yang kami terima. Sebetulnya saya lebih > > > > > >menghendaki sistem perpajakan seperti di AS berlaku di Australia di > > > > > >mana potongan pajak jauh lebih rendah. > > > > > > > > > > > >Simpan kata-kata busuk anda bagi orang-orang yang ongkang-ongkang > > > > > >kaki tanpa bekerja dengan memanfaatkan uang pajak orang banyak. > > > > > > > > > > > >--- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, "Bukan Pedanda" <bukan.pedanda@> > > > > > >wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Pertama: menolak undangan bedebah, seerti yagn dilakukan item abu > > > > > >> itu artinya tidak berdiam diri dihadapan kejahatan yang dilakukan > > > > > >> bedebah itu. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Kedua: sepanjang yang menyangkut kegiatan saya sejak tahun 1972 > > > > > >> hingga Orde Naru jatuh, saya bisa bilang, disamping mendiang Ernst > > > > > >> Utrecht dan sahabat saya Lim, saya adalah orang Indonesia yang > > > > > >> dari negeri Belanda yang ikut mendukung usaha orang di Indonesia > > > > > >> menjatuhkan Orde Baru. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Saya tidak sekedar bersenang-senang di negeri orang menikmati > > > > > >> jaminan sosial dan jaminan ksehatan yagn aduhai seperti anda yagn > > > > > >> adalah manusia oportunis yang bertabiat busuk, nista lagi > > > > > >> menjijikkan. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> --- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, "Teddy S." <teddyr@> wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Ha ha ha. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Tidak datang memenuhi undangan dan membenturkan kepala sendiri > > > > > >> > ke tembok itu sama-sama tak ada artinya. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Coba anda bercermin diri dan melihat apakah ada perubahan besar > > > > > >> > yang telah terjadi di Indonesia yang merupakan hasil > > > > > >> > "perjuangan" anda selama ini? > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Di sini semuanya tidak gratis dan malahan saya masih menyumbang > > > > > >> > orang lain. Sementara ada cukup banyak yang menjadi 'dole > > > > > >> > bludgers' yang sebagiannya enak-enak berselancar tiap harinya. > > > > > >> > Anda kira orang-orang ini pantas menerima santunan? > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > --- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, "Bukan Pedanda" > > > > > >> > <bukan.pedanda@> wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > "item abu" menyatakan pendapatnya dengan tidak datang memenuhi > > > > > >> > > undangan yang disampaikan kepadanya.. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > Ini satu. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > Yagn kedua: anda itu oportunis busuk, nisgtfa lagi menjijikkan > > > > > >> > > karena anda enak-enak hidup di negeri yang punya jaminan > > > > > >> > > sosial dan jaminan kesehatan yagn aduhai, hasil perjuangan > > > > > >> > > orang yang peduli akan kesenjangan sosial, lalua nda bicara > > > > > >> > > tentang mobil mewah dan anda tidak peduli dengan kejahatan > > > > > >> > > yang dilakukan oleh para bedebah yang menjarah khasanah negara > > > > > >> > > Indonsia - sembari merek menghina korban jarahannnnya yang > > > > > >> > > jadi melarat dengan petatagng petiting dengan mobil mewah > > > > > >> > > hasil jarahannya. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > Anda itu betulk-betul adalah bangsat oppotunis busuk, nista > > > > > >> > > lagi menjijikkan. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > --- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, "Teddy S." <teddyr@> wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > Tidak usah jauh-jauh, tuh protege satu-satunya kebanggan > > > > > >> > > > anda tidak berani mengungkapkan pendapatnya sendiri pada > > > > > >> > > > tetangga yang tinggal di depan rumahnya. Itu yang > > > > > >> > > > jelas-jelas langkah yang merupakan feedback langsung dan > > > > > >> > > > mungkin, ini sih masih mungkin bisa memberikan perubahan. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > Apa haknya saya mencampuri yang bukan wewenang saya karena > > > > > >> > > > mereka tidak mewakili saya? Anda mau mencampuri, maka itu > > > > > >> > > > urusan anda sendiri. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > Saya membayar restribusi untuk semua fasilitas yang saya dan > > > > > >> > > > ibu saya terima di Australia. Kalau dihitung hingga dengan > > > > > >> > > > sen-sen yang dikeluarkan, maka kontribusi saya selama ini > > > > > >> > > > masih lebih banyak daripada nilai fasilitas yang didapat. > > > > > >> > > > Jadi ini tidak gratis dan saya malah menyumbang untuk orang > > > > > >> > > > lain selama ini. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > Jadi fasilitas ini tidak gratis dan saya membayar penuh. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > --- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, "Bukan Pedanda" > > > > > >> > > > <bukan.pedanda@> wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > Betul-betul bajingan tengik. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > Betul-betul bangsat keparat. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > Betul-betul manusia oportunis bertabiat busuk, nista lagi > > > > > >> > > > > menjijikkan. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > Bukan urusannya, katanya, pejabat Indonesia menjarah > > > > > >> > > > > khasanah negara Indonesia dan menjadikan Indonesia dedel > > > > > >> > > > > duwel lalu menghina korban jarahannnya yang > > > > > >> > > > > dimelaratkannnya sembari petatang petiting pamer mobil > > > > > >> > > > > mewah dan pamer kekayaan.. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > Saat dia, Teddy, menikmati jaminan kesehatan yang aduhai > > > > > >> > > > > di Austrlia, hasil perjuangan orang Australia yang seperti > > > > > >> > > > > item abu peduli terhadap kesenjangan sosial. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > Selanjutnya: tidak peduli dengan adanya kejahatan yang > > > > > >> > > > > dilakukan pejabat bedebah di Indonesia itu hakekatnya > > > > > >> > > > > berpihak kepada pejabat penjahat itu. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > --- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, "Teddy S." <teddyr@> > > > > > >> > > > > wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Ada perbedaan besar antara berfihak dan tidak peduli. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > --- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, "Bukan Pedanda" > > > > > >> > > > > > <bukan.pedanda@> wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Asyik... > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Sekarang Teddy berpihak kepada penguasa bedebah di > > > > > >> > > > > > > Indonesia yang petatang petiting pamer hasil jarahan > > > > > >> > > > > > > mereka... > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Dan di Indonesia mobil mahal itu adalah sinonim dengan > > > > > >> > > > > > > mobil mewah... > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > --- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, "Teddy S." <teddyr@> > > > > > >> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Gawat, si belegug ini kagak bisa menyimak. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Lu jelas-jelas terobsesi dengan mobil-mobil mewah di > > > > > >> > > > > > > > mana lu punya definisi sendiri untuk yang namanya > > > > > >> > > > > > > > mobil-mobil mewah. Buat lu asal harganya relatif > > > > > >> > > > > > > > mahal, maka itu pastilah mobil mewah. Padahal > > > > > >> > > > > > > > mobil-mobil pejabat yang lu recokin itu tidak > > > > > >> > > > > > > > termasuk kategori mobil-mobil mewah dalam definisi > > > > > >> > > > > > > > standar seperti yang disebutkan dalam WIKIPEDIA. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Gua dalam hal ini tidak terlibat. Hak sang pejabat > > > > > >> > > > > > > > untuk punya mobil apapun juga. Gua sih sama sekali > > > > > >> > > > > > > > tidak peduli karena bukan urusan gua. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > --- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, item abu <itemabu@> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Hehehe.. si keparat Teddy ini muter2 lidah dan > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > nambah dosanya dgn bikin fitnah baru. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Gua cuma minta si Teddy ngebuktikan ocehannya > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > sendiri, lalu si Teddy ngoceh seolah2 gua pernah > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > ngelarang dia make duitnya sendiri. Kapan tuh gua > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > pernah ngelarang si Teddy make duitnya sendiri > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > sesuka hatinya? Yg gua bilang adalah si Teddy > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > adalah bajingan rakus dan serakah, bajingan yg ga > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > peduli dgn orang lain, bukan ngelarang si Teddy > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > make duit sesuka hatinya. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Udah jelas si Teddy ini ga bisa ngebuktikan > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > ocehannya, tp dasar bajingan ga tau malu, dia msh > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > ga mau ngaku bhw mulutnya adalah lobang taik, > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > padahal dia sendiri yg bilang kalo orang ga bisa > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > ngebuktikan omongannya, maka ybs itu bermulut > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > lobang taik. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Emang tuh, dr mulut anjing ga akan tumbuh gading. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >________________________________ > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > From: Teddy S. <teddyr@> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >To: proletar@yahoogroups.com > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 7:03 AM > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >Subject: [proletar] Re: Definisi untuk mobil mewah > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >à> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >Gua kagak pernah secara explisit menyebut > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >mobil-mobil mewah seperti yang lu lakukan. Peduli > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >amat dengan orang-orang yang memilikinya, karena > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >itu urusan pribadi orang. Hak orang untuk punya > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >dan yang pasti duitnya bukan dari lu. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >--- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, item abu > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > ><itemabu@> wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> Dan lu kaing2 gua terobsesi oleh mobil mewah. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> Dasar mulut lobang taik lu ini. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >________________________________ > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > From: Teddy S. <teddyr@> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >To: proletar@yahoogroups.com > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 4:45 AM > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >Subject: [proletar] Re: Definisi untuk mobil > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >mewah > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >Ãâà> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >Terjemahan dari google karena takutnya > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >kesulitan menterjemahkan: > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >>> Ada mobil ultra-tinggi kinerja dari "merek > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >>> eksotis" yang juga melebihi US $ 100.000, > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >>> tetapi belum tentu dikategorikan sebagai > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >>> mobil mewah, seperti sebagai mobil sport > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >>> dari Ferrari, Lamborghini dan Porsche, > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >>> meskipun Porsche Panamera bersaing dalam > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >>> kemewahan high-end / ukuran penuh kategori > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >>> mewah. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >>> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >--- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, "Teddy S." > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> ><teddyr@> wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> Sudah terbukti anda yang dungu tapi tidak > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> mau langsung mengaku dan orang yang berotak > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> busuk, nista lagi menjijikan adalah orang > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> yang fikiran-fikirannya saling bertentangan > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> dan hanya mementingkan glorifikasi pribadi > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> sendiri. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> Baca dengan cermat DEFINISI mobil mewah di > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> mana unsur HARGA bukanlah satu-satunya > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> kriteria. Semua orang normal akan tahu bahwa > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> Ferrari itu merk sebuah mobil sport. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> Kalau memang anda cermerlang tentunya anda > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> akan mampu merubah definisi yang diberikan > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> WIKIPEDIA hingga WIKIPEDIA mau meralat dan > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> memasukan Ferrari sebagai salah satu mobil > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> yang termasuk dalam klasifikasi mobil mewah. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> Saya tantang anda untuk melakukan hal itu > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> terhadap WIKIPEDIA. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> Sekali lagi untuk yang diragukan apakah > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> mereka punya mata atau cuma baso doang. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > There are ultra-high performance cars > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > from "exotic brands" that also exceed > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > US$100,000, but would not necessarily be > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > categorized as luxury automobiles, such > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > as the sports cars from Ferrari, > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > Lamborghini and Porsche, although the > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > Porsche Panamera does compete in the > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > high-end luxury/full-size luxury > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > category. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> --- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, "Bukan > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> Pedanda" <bukan.pedanda@> wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > Saya kutip, tanpa komentar karena begitu > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > jelas dungunya, referensi Teddy yang > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > adalah manusia oportunis berotak busuk, > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > nista lagi menjijikkan ini tentang mobil > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > mewah: > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > "Dengan demikian bisa dikatakan Ferrari > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > TIDAK termasuk kedalam kelas mobil > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > mewah, walau harganya sendiri relatif > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > mahal. " > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > --- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, "Teddy > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > S." <teddyr@> wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > Aneh bin ajaib kalau ada orang yang > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > merasa dirinya demikian pintar dan rajin > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > menggugel dalam hal-hal lain, tapi masih > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > ngotot dengan definisinya sendiri atas > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > "mobil-mobil mewah". > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > Mumpung masih pagi dan ada sedikit > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > waktu, jadi bolehlah sedikit berbelas > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > kasihan meluangkan waktu untuk membantu > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > membuka mata. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > --- > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > Luxury vehicle is a marketing term for a > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > vehicle that provides luxury > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > âââ¬" pleasant or desirable > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > features beyond strict > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > necessityâââ¬"at increased > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > expense (see: definition of luxury). The > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > term suggests a vehicle with greater > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > equipment, performance, construction > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > precision, comfort, design ingenuity, > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > technological innovation, or features > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > that convey brand image, cachet, status, > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > or prestigeâââ¬"or any other > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > discretionary feature or combination of > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > features. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > Luxury market segments > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > Premium compact segment > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > The premium compact > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > segment[clarification needed] or > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > small-luxury class is relatively new, > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > having been initiated by several > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > European brands in the mid-2000s, and > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > constitute the least expensive offerings > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > in their lineups. These cars are > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > targeted at a niche market of young > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > customers who have a more refined taste > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > in their automobiles and the means to > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > pay for them.[citation needed] By > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > offering a smaller, lighter, more > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > fuel-efficient, and less expensive > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > vehicle, this serves to introduce a > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > younger customer to the luxury marque, > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > in hopes of retaining the coveted > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > customer loyalty.[citation needed] This > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > includes the Audi A3, BMW 1 Series, > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > Lexus CT, and Mercedes-Benz B-Class. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > Premium compacts may share components > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > with mass market cars from the marque's > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > parent company (the A3), and/or have > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > less sophisticated platforms compared to > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > upmarket vehicles in the lineup (such as > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > the B-Class). The body style tends to be > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > a hatchback or compact wagon, previously > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > associated with economy cars but > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > regaining popularity in the United > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > States for its afforded utility. The > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > luxury branding and style, high-quality > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > interior materials, wide range of > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > convenience features, and performance > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > powertrains are key to distinguishing > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > them from mass market equivalents (one > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > mistake made by the Cadillac Cimarron) > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > and making these appeal to consumers. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > The classification varies, for instance > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > Consumer Guide Automotive in the US > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > considers the Audi A3 and A4 as part of > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > the premium compact segment due to > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > similar size and MSRP, though these are > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > known in Europe as a small family car > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > and a compact executive car, > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > respectively. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > Entry-level luxury/compact executive cars > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > The entry-level luxury category is also > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > known as the compact executive car in > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > Britain and (Mittelklasse in German). In > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > the US, this segment mostly includes the > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > bottom vehicles in the line-up of luxury > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > brands as well as the top-of-the-line > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > models of some non-luxury brands. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > Dimensionally, compact executive cars > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > are smaller than mid-size/large family > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > cars, and sometimes even smaller than > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > compact cars. Mass market compact cars > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > typically use the economical front wheel > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > drive transverse engine layout, well > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > suited to the inline-4 engine, which > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > also maximizes interior room. Several > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > compact executive cars are rear-wheel > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > drive with longitudinal engines, for > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > improved stability and handling, and in > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > order to accommodate the larger size of > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > higher-performance engines (straight-6, > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > V6, rarely V8), with four-wheel drive > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > often being available. Compact executive > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > cars also tend have more complicated > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > independent suspensions, sportier > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > transmissions, and high revolution > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > engines that may require premium > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > gasoline. The more complex powertrain > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > and mechanical layouts of compact > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > executive cars comes at increased cost > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > and reduced interior passenger and trunk > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > space. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > Compact executive cars include the Volvo > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > S60, Acura TSX, Lexus IS, BMW 3 Series, > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > Audi A4, and Mercedes-Benz C-Class which > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > particularly emphasize sporty handling. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > Other vehicles such as the Lexus ES, > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > Acura TL, Chrysler 300, and Buick > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > LaCrosse are also considered entry-level > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > luxury in the United States and Canada, > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > being similar in price to the BMW 3 > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > Series and Mercedes-Benz C-Class. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > However, the ES, TL, and LaCrosse are > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > not sold in Europe and do not fall under > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > European luxury classifications. The ES > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > and TL actually began as badge > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > engineered versions of the midsize > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > Toyota Camry and Honda Accord, > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > respectively, retaining the front wheel > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > drive transverse engine layout, whereas > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > Toyota's current Lexus IS does not share > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > a platform with mass market Toyota cars. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > The ES and TL are not considered > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > executive cars either, despite similar > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > dimensions, since executive cars usually > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > emphasize higher performance, often > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > being rear-wheel drive with longitudinal > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > engines. The present iterations of the > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > ES and LaCrosse emphasize "comfortable, > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > reasonably priced luxury", while the TL > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > has recently been targeted at > > > > > the entry-level > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > luxury > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> sport market. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > Recently, the entry-level luxury has > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > been very competitive, and there has > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > been price-overlapping with > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > well-equipped non-luxury cars. The > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > bestselling vehicles of the marque are > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > frequently compact executive cars, such > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > as the BMW 3 Series that makes up 40% of > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > the vehicles that BMW sells worldwide. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > Mid-luxury/executive cars > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > The mid-luxury segment are commonly > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > referred to as executive cars in > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > Britain, Obere Mittelklasse in German, > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > and Grandes RoutiÃÆ'ères in French. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > Examples include the Volvo S80, BMW 5 > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > Series, Mercedes-Benz E-Class, and > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > Jaguar XF > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > Although having similar dimensions to > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > mid-size cars and large family cars, > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > executive cars are engineered and > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > positioned as premium vehicles with > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > better performance and technology > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > amenities. There are also higher > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > development and production costs, as > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > many well-known mid-luxury cars use the > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > longitudinal (usually front engine rear > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > wheel drive layout) engine mounting > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > which affords space for powerful engines > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > such as a V8, instead of the more > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > economical transverse engine layout of > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > mass market cars which are restricted to > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > inline-4 or V6. Executive cars usually > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > have lower sales and production volumes > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > compared to mid-size cars and large > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > family cars, as base trims with less > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > equipment and smaller engines are not > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > sold in U.S. and Canadian markets. Also > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > due to the problem of steep > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > depreciation, especially concerning cars > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > from less prestigious brands, most > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > executive cars are produced by marques > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > that specialize in larger/more expensive > > > > > vehicles. Particularly in > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> the United States, the mid-luxury segment is > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> dominated by Mercedes-Benz and BMW, as > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> executive cars from lesser-known manufacturers > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> such as CitroÃÆ'ën and Infiniti have not > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> had much success. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > Vehicles in this segment include the > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > mid-range models of several luxury car > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > manufacturers. There are also some > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > flagship sedans in this segment, such as > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > the Acura RL and Infiniti M. Executive > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > cars such as the BMW 5 Series are > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > crucial to a luxury automaker's bottom > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > line, and although not the > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > highest-selling model, they generate a > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > significant amount of profits due to the > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > lucrative technology options. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > High-end luxury/full-size luxury cars > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > Also known as full-size luxury cars, > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > grand saloons, or premium large cars, > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > while "Oberklasse" is used in Germany. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > Many of these are the marque's showcases > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > for the newest automotive technology. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > Several nameplates also offer > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > long-wheelbase versions that offer > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > additional rear legroom and amenities. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > Full-size luxury cars sold in Canada and > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > the U.S. typically have mid-displacement > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > V8 engines, though recently some marques > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > have offered six cylinder powerplants > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > but without much success. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > Vehicles in this category include some > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > of the models from the flagship lines of > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > luxury car brands. Examples include the > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ, Lexus > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > LS, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > Phaeton, and in the US, the Lincoln Town > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > Car and Cadillac DTS. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > Ultra-luxury cars > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > R.L. Polk and Company, a global > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > automotive information and marketing > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > firm that provides solutions to > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > automotive and related industries, has > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > defined the term "super luxury" segment > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > for luxury cars costing more than > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > US$100,000. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > This bracket includes the entire lineup > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > of Rolls Royce, Bentley, Aston Martin, > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > Maybach, and Maserati, as these marques > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > do not offer lower-priced offerings in > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > the entry-level luxury or mid-luxury > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > segments like more mainstream luxury > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > brands like BMW and Mercedes-Benz. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > Rolls Royce and Bentley have attempted > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > to move downmarket somewhat with > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > offerings priced considerably lower than > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > their traditional offerings (Rolls Royce > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > Phantom and Bentley Mulsanne) such as > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > the Rolls Royce Ghost and the Bentley > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > Continental GT, creating what Car and > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > Driver describes as the "entry-opulent > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > segment". Bentley, Maybach, and > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > Rolls-Royce vehicles share platforms and > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > engines with other luxury brands from > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > their parent auto company, however > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > Rolls-Royce and Bentley are assembled in > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > England (separate from the rest of BMW > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > and Volkswagen Group's production > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > plants) and this "exclusivity" has made > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > these British marques a sales success. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > By comparison, Maybachs are built > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > alongside the Mercedes-Benz S-Class > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > flagship sedan which has explained why > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > it has not fared well in the market, > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > furthermore the Maybach's pedigree was > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > virtually unknown outside of Germany > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > unlike its British rivals which have > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > long enjoyed renown worldwide. A > > > > > Bentley executive was > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> quoted as saying "that the brand's > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> exclusivity, history and obsessive luxury help > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> to convince customers that a Bentley is worth > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> the price" which is at least twice that of a > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> flagship luxury car from BMW or Mercedes-Benz. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > The top-performing variants of flagship > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > cars from Audi, BMW, and Mercedes-Benz > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > are often included here as well. They > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > often have 12-cylinder (usually V12) > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > engines for great refinement and > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > smoothness, even though contemporary V8 > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > engines can make similar output while > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > being less expensive. While BMW sells > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > far fewer V12-engined 7-Series vehicles > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > than V8 versions, the V12 retains > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > popularity in the US, China, and Russia, > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > as well as maintaining the marque's > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > prestige in the luxury vehicle market > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > segment. These ultra-luxury trims also > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > feature standard luxury and technology > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > features that would be considered > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > optional on their V8 siblings. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > There are ultra-high performance cars > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > from "exotic brands" that also exceed > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > US$100,000, but would not necessarily be > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > categorized as luxury automobiles, such > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > as the sports cars from Ferrari, > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > Lamborghini and Porsche, although the > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > Porsche Panamera does compete in the > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > high-end luxury/full-size luxury > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > category. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > --- > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > Jadi berdasarkan informasi yang > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > diberikan oleh WIKIPEDIA, Toyota > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > bukanlah merk mobil mewah (baca lagi > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > definisinya di atas) untuk kelas mobil > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > mewah Toyota punya merk sendiri, yaitu > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > L.... (cari sendiri jawabnya, jangan mau > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > disuapin aja). > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > Berdasarkan pernyataan WIKIPEDIA pada > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxury_vehicle: > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > There are ultra-high performance cars > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > from "exotic brands" that also exceed > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > US$100,000, but would not necessarily be > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > categorized as luxury automobiles, such > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > as the sports cars from Ferrari, > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > Lamborghini and Porsche, although the > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > Porsche Panamera does compete in the > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > high-end luxury/full-size luxury > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > category. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > Dengan demikian bisa dikatakan Ferrari > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > TIDAK termasuk kedalam kelas mobil > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > mewah, walau harganya sendiri relatif > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > mahal. Saat dulu berdiskusi dengan > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > johny, kami sedang memperbincangkan > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > kenikmatan berkendaraan dengan > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > akselerasi tinggi, bukannya > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > memperbincangkan mobil mewah. Baca lagi > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > itu tulisan. Mengutip kata-kata guru > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > wanita SMA kami di Bandung dulu > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > (kebetulan beliau berdarah Ambon) yang > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > mengajar pelajaran bahasa Jerman: > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > "Meneer, itu mata apa baso, Meneer?" > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > Gaploki kepala sendiri 10 kali karena > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > sudah membuang waku orang untuk > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > menerangkan sesuatu yang bisa dicari > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > sendiri. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> removed] > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > removed] > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Post message: prole...@egroups.com Subscribe : proletar-subscr...@egroups.com Unsubscribe : proletar-unsubscr...@egroups.com List owner : proletar-ow...@egroups.com Homepage : http://proletar.8m.com/Yahoo! 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