On Apr 13, 2016, at 1:48 AM, Andreas Zuber <zu...@puzzle.ch> wrote: > > > > On 04/11/2016 07:38 PM, R.I.Pienaar wrote: >> >> >> On 11 Apr 2016, at 17:45, Eric Shamow < >> <mailto:eric.sha...@gmail.com>eric.sha...@gmail.com >> <mailto:eric.sha...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >>> On April 11, 2016 at 4:08:51 AM, R.I.Pienaar ( >>> <mailto:r...@devco.net>r...@devco.net <mailto:r...@devco.net>) wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> > From: "Thomas Gelf" < <mailto:tho...@gelf.net>tho...@gelf.net >>>> > <mailto:tho...@gelf.net>> >>>> > To: "puppet-dev" <puppet-dev@googlegroups.com >>>> > <mailto:puppet-dev@googlegroups.com>> >>>> > Sent: Monday, 11 April, 2016 03:30:58 >>>> > Subject: [Puppet-dev] Re: The Future of Puppet [Was: Deprecation logs] >>>> >>>> > Am 11.04.2016 um 03:01 schrieb Rob Nelson: >>>> >> Of course there's lock in. You can't click a button and go from Puppet >>>> >> OSS to Chef OSS; [...] >>>> >> Is their concern about being able to contribute to it or even fork? I >>>> >> suspect that's what most lock in concerns are really based on. >>>> > >>>> > It's about going from Puppet OSS to PE, forth and and back. No problem >>>> > with loosing the GUI or special add-ons. But the core functionality of >>>> > your CM tool, that's what they want to be free software. >>>> > >>>> >>>> Eric asked so here it is, this is my feedback with a open source user hat >>>> on. Echoing much what was said. I hope others send in their story. >>>> > > I don't often contribute on this list but this discussion raised so many > points I feel really uncomfortable about at the moment, I may as well add my > thoughts. > > I started with puppet 0.24 or something and since then I almost exclusively > work on projects where I help to build the puppet infrastructure and the > tooling/workflow around it. I have not a single customer right now who > adopted puppet 4.0 for various reasons. For someone who basically works daily > with your tool I feel strangely disconnected from the resent developments and > there are probably various reasons for this. I will try to explain some of > them here and I hope you don't see this as just another rant but accept it as > feedback from a user of your software. > > As you can tell from the versions we started out we are already familiar with > upgrading the puppet stack, and so far there was always a good reason to do > it. Yes sometimes there was some pain involved but there was always a good > reason to make the investment and it was relatively easy to convince the > people who actually pay for it why we had to do it. This time around it just > seams very different.. > > * PuppetDB * > > When PuppetDB first came out we looked at it and tried to figure out what the > reason was for this software and how we could deploy it to our puppet stack. > We immediately discovered that there was a problem with the node > decommissioning process and exported resources, which was the only reason we > used stored_config in the first place. > > PuppetDB did not add any value, it did not replace the functionality we > needed, it was some very different stack no one had any idea about how to > even debug the thing, so a bug was filed and we continued to use MySQL.
In our experience, literally no one we ever talked to could use StoreConfigs in production. You could get maybe 30 machines on it before it fell over, and lite_storeconfigs (thanks Brice!) only helped a little. That’s a pretty massive value. […] > * Puppet 4 * > > It's not like Puppet 4 has some serious killer feature which justifies the > investment to migrate right now. I am sure it is a great product and it has a > lot of improvements. The problems we are currently facing has nothing to do > with the puppet language, it has to do with the deployment, with code quality > and orchestration in a world where multi-node setups just exploded. There is no killer feature, other than massive speed increases all around and having a formal language now. The main killer feature is that there were 100 little inconsistencies in the language that people tripped over non-stop. Being able to push through all of those is the killer feature. I know it isn’t obvious, but it really is about making 100x easier for anyone to approach Puppet, rather than asking every new person to learn where all the traps, mines, grues, and everything else are. […] > * The future * > > I did not even touch puppetserver and all the other new stuff in this post, > since this stuff is even further away. > > With the puppet 3 EOL almost at the doorstep, the future looks rather bleak. > I seriously have no idea how I can convince a customer to invest months into > code updating without some value coming from it. I know there is always a > maintenance cost with code, but this seams rather high and it does not look > like it get's cheaper post puppet 4. > > And maybe you noticed, it has absolutely nothing to do with PE or OS puppet. I appreciate the focus on overall product. We’re definitely way off topic for the list, but we haven’t let that stop us before, so… I have no idea of your use cases, so I can’t talk about what value you mind in what we’re doing. What other customers have found valuable in latest releases is, well, a ton: - Dramatically faster, more reliable, scalable, etc. - Much easier to install, upgrade, maintain, etc. - Best ever for understanding how the environment is working, what’s broken, where the world is at - Orchestrator built in now so you don’t need to use two separate tools (no more convergence, no more Puppet+Ansible) - Really good r10k integration in Code Manager, plus a lot more around it - Fantastic graph visualization for debugging and prediction That’s just a couple of things, and maybe none of it matters to you. I will make sure we get a more forward-looking statement of roadmap-type stuff out soon, but I can’t do that here. — @puppetmasterd | http://about.me/lak <http://about.me/lak> | http://puppetlabs.com/ <http://puppetlabs.com/> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Puppet Developers" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to puppet-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/puppet-dev/CA055E5A-CBCA-48ED-9108-754D3DE93AF8%40puppet.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
