On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 8:04 AM, Jamie<[email protected]> wrote: > > You're selling to the wrong people, man. Management and the wider > developer community has to buy into Pylons before it gets significant > traction. Me, you, and the rest of the people reading this thread are > in the minority--the early adopters. Most developers prefer to follow > hoard because it's easier. Management follows the hoard because it's > less risky. Find a way to wow the hoard with results (rather than the > pedantic "Pylons is better because...") and the project will get > noticed.
Winning over a company often requires several small steps. When I started at my current organization, one Python enthusiast had brought it in for scientific calculations and GUI code. It's being used in parallel with C++. I was hired to build one and potentially several websites. They weren't sure which language to go with: PHP, Python, or Java. I stated my preference for Python in the interview. But after I was hired I was told it had to be PHP. The project was delayed, so my first website was for another division that didn't care about the language. They asked me to make a look-and-feel port of a FileMaker app. (FileMaker is a database like FoxPro with a built-in webserver that's limited and low-capacity.) I wrote one version in PHP, but when they wanted more features I said it would be more maintainable in Python, so I made phase 2 in Python using the Quixote framework. Meanwhile in my main department, they decided not to build the site I was originally hired to do. Instead they asked me to port another FileMaker application. They also wanted to add authentication using LDAP for internal users and a custom database for external users, and several permission levels. Again they wanted PHP, but I said, "Look, this Python site I made has all the auth you're asking for, so why not just take that code, and it will be more maintainable over the long term." They agreed, and Python was in. I found out the real reason they'd insisted on PHP before was that one manager wanted it in a language he could personally understand. He could make a simple PHP page but not an application. We Pythoneers pointed out you shouldn't choose a language based on what a non-developer could personally understand. Luckily the guy had transfered out, and the new manager deferred to the developer's judgement. So I built this private site, then they suddenly needed a public site with a subset of its functionality. I said, "Sure", and cloned the public site in 12 hours. That was another win for Python. We began running into Quixote's limitations so I explored alternatives. TurboGears provided a database interface, Unicode, application structure, templating, threading, Windows support, and developers with expertise in auth, Javascript, and encryption-security -- all which Quixote didn't. I'd had to write these all from scratch in my applications, and I wanted to switch to peer-tested, state-of-the-art code. But this was before TG 1.0, so I got too many hard-to-debug tracebacks, and the Kid mailing list was unresponsive to my questions. So I abandoned that and went with Pylons instead. I gradually converted all applications to Pylons during their periodic upgrade. (Except one which is still Quixote, but won't run on Ubuntu 9.04 for multiple Quixote reasons, so I need to convert it soon.) We want to limit the number of languages and frameworks in our organization to leverage cross-developer training, without being overly draconian if something works. So people are using Python, C++, VB, FileMaker, Access, and FoxPro for different projects. But new applications are written in Python and Pylons unless there's a compelling reason to use something else. And this would not have happened without one person who had been a Python evangelist for a couple years before I started, and the success of one webapp paving the way for the next webapp. Regarding the lack of Pylons' marketing by the developers, it's not a lack of interest. It's just that Pylons 1.0 is not finished yet so we don't want to bring a lot of newbies on yet to suffer its growing pains. (Of course, the timing of the Pylons Book has brought some in, and they've become more or less successful in Pylons after a few initial frustrations.) Second, the Pylons developers don't quite have the marketing talent as you may have noticed. So if those users who can do a better job of it could put together a marketing task force, and just run the strategy by Ben for approval, that would probably be the best way to go. -- Mike Orr <[email protected]> --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "pylons-discuss" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/pylons-discuss?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
