Alexander,
the people we are addressing and we would like to bring together is from
the QEMU emulation community.
We are interested in running different ISAs mainly under Linux and
Windows versions. There is a huge additional
interest from industry for this part to QEMU for embedded systems/SW
development. The focus we have chosen
for the DATE conference is SystemC integration with QEMU emulation since
the embedded systems and SystemC
community meets at DATE so that we expect several people from them to
attend. However, as already written, we
basically failed to find any indication for contact point for the
emulation community. Any pointers are highly appreciated.
Virtualization is not of any interest in that workshop as there if
course already exists the KVM forum you refered to.
I understood from the available information and contacts that there is a
common consensus that the QEMU
virtualization community is denoted as "KVM community" and not as "QEMU
community" which also brings the
difference to the point, right? My understanding so far is that "QEMU
community" refers mainly to the software emulation
people part.
PS: I have no idea about the number of people who are on the
qemu-devel@nongnu.org list we are cc'ing.
I hope there are not too many and that they are interested in our
communication. Otherwise, I apologize.
w.
On 25.11.2010 12:03, Alexander Graf wrote:
Wolfgang,
On 25.11.2010, at 11:30, wolfgang mueller wrote:
Dear Alexander Graf,
thank you for contacting me.
I hope that I am right when I understand your below email as a
complaint that we have not contacted you before organizing
this event.
The complaint is mostly that you have not approached the community,
yes :).
First of all, we understand our event not as an official QEMU event
nor have we stated this anywhere or that that we are the
owners of QEMU.
Let me explain about the background of the Workshop.
We as QEMU users, occasionally meet other QEMU users at conferences
and we observed that the number was significantly growing
during the last years (thanks to the excellent work of the
developers). We googled for any contacts to other QEMU users and
did neither found any workshop nor any mailing list or anything
similar we could contact. The only thing we found as a main contact
was Fabrice Bellard and a huge set of developers (~3000). We saw
Fabrice Bellard as the "owner" and contacted him. Unfortunately
he rejected as he has no longer interest in QEMU.
I guess we should really remove most traces of Fabrice if he isn't
even helpful enough to direct you to the mailing list. The maintainer
situation should be explained in the MAINTAINERS file in the qemu
source tree. Apparently the last attempt to redo that file and make it
contain actual current information failed. Sigh.
There is a group of people with commit rights to the source tree. Each
of them have special and in general different fields of interest.
There are also several submaintainers who keep track of subsystems,
but don't have commit rights and route everything through the few
people with commit rights.
In general, it's similar to the Linux kernel, but with a schizophrenic
Linus.
So the "right thing" to do would have been to send a mail to the
qemu-devel mailing list, asking for feedback. The right people
definitely do read the list.
As we did not find any current "leader" or dedicated leading group
beyond the web site, we decided to move on since we were interested
to get the QEMU users together to join efforts and exchange ideas and
developments (The alternative would have been to contact
all over 3000 QEMU developers and to discuss with them the
organization of such a event. However, from the first idea to the
possibility to get it accepted in the framework of the DATE
conference were very few weeks so that we did not see it as a viable
alternative).
I now understand that we obviously missed your role in that community
as the leader or one of the leaders and qemu-devel@nongnu.org
as the community or part of the community. Therefore, we apologize
that we did not contact you or qemu-de...@nongnu.org.
Don't worry about me. I feel myself in general rather representing
minorities in qemu. The closest to a "leader" position in qemu these
days is probably Anthony Liguori. CC'ing him.
However, currently though already very late, we could offer you that
you can join and and we can list you as a third organizer.
But you have to make an immediate decision as the DATE program will
go to print in about 10 days. Otherwise you will be only
listed on the web.
Additionally, we are still looking for a person who is giving a
general 45-minute QEMU tutorial/overview. As we were enforce by the
hosting DATE conference to put a name there, please just take it as a
placeholder for the worst case that we do not find anybody else.
Are you interested or anybody from qemu-de...@nongnu.org?
This is exactly the reason I approached you sceptic on the whole
thing. Qemu is _very_ diverse. It ranges from prototyping non-existing
hardware over user-space only emulation to virtualization. Each of the
different aspects have their very own issues and traction. The group
that's the most active currently is the virtualization crowd. Which
target audience are you going for?
Finally, I actually do not share your concerns that people register
to get more information "about command line switches to virtualize
on x86 hardware". I really would expect that people read the
programme before they register. However, maybe you know the community
better than I do.
After checking on the pricing for previous years I agree with you :).
For the future, we are currently not planning a second Users' Forum
and we are open to forward the organization of a second workshop
to anybody else.
Why don't you simply take this event as a first trigger to organize
an QEMU conference for Developers and users.
We can help you by forwarding the email addresses of some of the
people. I can also help you if you want.
This can be the start of a real great effort with huge benefit to the
community.
As stated above, things are more difficult than that, but I agree. We
do have annual KVM Forum meetings where we gather all the
virtualization people from Qemu as well and talk about things there.
The slides and recordings are publicly available, if you're
interested: http://www.linux-kvm.org/page/KVM_Forum_2010. In general,
people surrounding KVM meet quite a bit.
For the emulation side, things look different. I'm not aware of any
traction on the emulation side of Qemu. Getting people together for
that one is certainly lacking. I'm not sure I'm the right person to
talk to there. If nobody else steps up, I could barely play the role
of someone who knows what he's talking about, but I'm myself more of a
virtualization person too.
So it all boils down to the audience you're expecting. From the
announcement and colocation with DATE, I assume you're looking mostly
for SystemC integration? That probably plays well into the emulation
piece. I don't think that doing yet another 'normal' virtualization
focused event would be beneficial - we get plenty of gatherings around
that already.
Alex
--
-- wolfgang
_______________________________________________________________________
Wolfgang Mueller wolfg...@acm.org adt.cs.upb.de/wolfgang
Paderborn University/C-LAB, Fuerstenallee 11, 33098 Paderborn, Germany
Phone:(++)49-5251.60.6134 Fax:(++)49-5251.60.6065
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