On 19 Apr 2010, at 17:33, Tobias Hunger wrote:
> On 19.04.2010 18:02, ext Danny Price wrote:
>> I think the settings in the .pro file should always take priority. This
>> is allows for automated builds and builds outside of Creator.
>
> I do not get your point here: Of course the pro-file gets preference.
> Qmake does not know of the .user file at all, so if you run qmake
> outside creator will of course completely ignore any Creator settings.
Yes but the reverse is no-longer true.
>
>> It
>> shouldn't be muddied up to handle Creator special-cases. That sets
>> a precedent.
>
> I do not consider shadow building to be a creator special case. I use it
> for all projects I work on (be it qmake based or cmake or even
> autotools, if they actually support it without too much breakage) and
> did so long before I started using Qt Creator in earnest. It makes
> switching between different configurations of a project so much easier,
> be it debug/release, different set of defines/dependencies or even
> different platforms.
>
> You should really give it a try! You are missing out if you do not.
It doesn't seem to offer anything that qmake can do with a little tweaking. In
fact, I consider it a flaw in Creator that the template projects used by the
wizards contain such basic pro files. They need a LOT of tweaking before they
can be useful.
Perhaps you could give me a concrete example where shadow builds do something
that .pro files settings cannot?
>
>> I'm not sold on the idea that Creator must turn on shadow builds by
>> default. If it's an issue as stated by Tobias, why not simple turn it on
>> in via the Project screen/pro.user file for the projects that require it
>> as was the case previously?
>
> Why not simply turn it off for the projects that do not need it?
> Seriously, this does not get us anywhere.
Because as I explained in my previous email to Tobias with my attached sample
project, simply turning off the settings still leaves my projects borked. I
have to manually go through the file system and trash all the make files to get
them working again. And if I check in the working project into SVN, the next
user who checks it out will have to go through the whole process again if they
neglect to uncheck the shadow build option in their newly-generated pro.user
files before hitting build.
I'm tempted to write a little script that actually goes through my projects and
cleans down the broken make files. This is clearly a failure in Creator's part
as an IDE.
>
> What exactly is broken for you? Which of your settings are ignored by
> creator?
>
>> The functionality is identical.
>
> No, shadow building is far more flexible and I am convinced we should
> offer that flexibility by default. Plus it reduces the number of clean
> up issues we currently have with creator when switching configurations.
But It shouldn't override my handcrafted .pro file settings! I shouldn't have
to re-configure all my project settings every-time Nokia release a new version
of Creator and decide to turn on some new feature that breaks them.
>
>> Tobias, your statement seems to imply that the Nokia/Qt devs are also
>> throwing away their pro.user files to get builds working which is the
>> underlying issue.
>
> I usually do not delete my .user files, but I sometimes do loose them
> when running git clean in the terminal. I keep forgetting that creator
> can do that nowadays (and it will leave the .user file by default;-)
>
>> If that's the case, why not fix pro.user files once
>> and for all? Fix the problem at source?
>
> The .user file does what it is meant to do quite well for my use case.
> You seem to have a different use case which I would really like to
> understand.
I use Creator daily, both in a production environment and as a hobbyist. The
proi.user files have repeatedly proven to be very brittle and break my builds.
One issue is the fact that they cannot be used with with source control, so
every compiler setting, dependency, flag and build step has to be created
manually every-time someone does a clean checkout of the project. I know of no
other IDE that does this. It was for this reason that I gave up on the Project
screen and stated coded everything into the .pro files. To qmakes credit, it's
all worked so far. At least until I tried importing my projects into the latest
snapshot.
I've also had many issues where Creator cannot find the binaries it just built
('Permissions wrong?") or couldn't locate objects to link to resulting in
linker errors that Creator simply reported as generic makefile failures. This
often happened when a project was built independently of a session when
previously it was built as a subdir.
In ALL CASES, the problems were fixed by trashing the .pro.user files. And
there are plenty of over Creator users who will confirm this.
The point I'm making is that the flaws of the .pro.user system could previously
be worked around in the .pro file and we could happily trash the .pro.user file
whenever it gave us problems. Now we cannot, because the re-generated user
files turn on shadow builds that override our .pro variable settings.
>
> Best Regards,
> Tobias
>
> --
> Tobias Hunger
> Software Engineer
> Nokia, Qt Development Frameworks
>
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