On Tuesday, February 27, 2018 at 11:16:46 PM UTC+1, [799] wrote: > Hello Yuraeitha, > > Thanks for the clarification, I think we share some common values. > > > > -- > Qubes 4rc3 > Lenovo X230 + Lenovo W540 > > Gesendet von ProtonMail mobile > > > > > -------- Original-Nachricht -------- > An 27. Feb. 2018, 02:48, Yuraeitha schrieb: > > > > > Okay I may have come on a bit strong worded, > > I apologize that I ended up being rude. > > Nevertheless I'm not reclaiming my criticism > > before convinced otherwise. > > Thanks for the reply, as always in written communication it's sometimes hard > to read the intention by just reading the words. > > > > I definitely have projects I'm working on, such > > as QubesTV, QubesNAS, Qubes update script, > > Qubes screenshot scripts, etc. > > If possible share it, I am heavily interested in a better screenshot solution > and come up with a first prototype to be able to copy a screenshot (made in > dom0) into the clipboard of a predefined AppVM. > (Search for qvm-screenshot-to-clipboard on GitHub) > Warning: it is a working solution but currently without any error handling, > happy to hear feedback from a security view as I am far away from being an > expert there. > > > My beef with this is that Qubes is about being > > open source, decentralization (Qubes Air > > which was planned almost a decade ago > > now), retaining control of ones own system, > > etc. If there are just as good open source > > solutions, or even nearly just as good ones, > > then these should be mentioned and > > included. > > I totally agree and that is what I am doing everyday when I talk to my > "enterprise" customers when the decide to use windows or VMware just because > it is "more of an enterprise solution" (mainly because it costs money :-/). > Of course I don't agree with this argument. > Open Source is great, and if I would have known about an open source solution > I would have mention this. > > > While sure Qubes is primarily about security > > and less focused about privacy, but Qubes is > > also about open source and retaining control > > of your system. > > Agreed and I think that you can still gain privacy and security benefits when > using "closed source" solution with Qubes just by using different Qubes. > Let me put it this way, if I am really concerned about privacy I would not > use Amazon Prime/Netflix at all because you become very transparent when > someone knows what you are watching/reading and when. > > > To put this straight, I don't care if users can > > just choose to do something else, the fact > > that it's not following the spirit of what Qubes > > is all about, is what I care about. > > Understand you point, still I think that every person who is using Linux or > even better Qubes is a large win as more people learn that there are > alternatives. > Maybe the use Linux and Chrome in the beginning and some day companies see > that there is a critical mass, so that it makes sense to develop cross > platform solution. > I don't expect that every company has to go open source, maybe because they > want to protect their ownership/development costs. But I would like to use > their software on my Operation System of choice. > So the biggest topic is not that I have to use closed source/proprietary > software but that I need to sacrifice lots of features when working in the > classic "enterprise app" environment. > Example: > > Our ERP System, Our CTI Application (ESTOS), Cisco WebEx/Cisco Jabber/Spark, > Microsoft Office/Outlook, our main IT Service Tool (Remote Desktop Manager) > are mainly running on top of of Windows, some offer a limited feature set > when using web-alternatives, but there are no native Linux Apps, which is > shame. > I am running Qubes OS as primary OS but it is (for my job role) impossible > without using Windows or other closed source apps. > That's also why I really hope to see ongoing Windows AppVM support in Qubes > which I honestly think is a major feature being able to run Qubes. > > > (...) I also enjoy discussions trying to reach a > > common shared ground. That's what > > discussions are all about to begin with after > > all. > > Agreed. > > [799]
I'm glad that we're on good terms again, it's been bothering me a lot since I made that mistake. You make a good point that it can be hard to read peoples intends in written communication too, with the lack of body language and voice, dynamic communication and such, I definitely agree. Although I could have written that much better by not making that mistake, so it's still my fault even so, I will have to learn from that experience. I can relate with the Windows issues, I've recently become fully Linux (Qubes) by finally becoming fully accustomed when I ditched MS-Office for LibreOffice (I couldn't do that for years, but finally made it fully across), which was my last nail in the Microsoft coffin. But I still have friends, and the educational institutions/work also still force use of windows apps, which keeps pushing back to windows apps for various different reasons, and they're not ready to use Linux systems without Windows application support. So I don't only agree with you on that, I can also relate to it too, we definitely need that Windows AppVM support to make Qubes a better environment for everyone. It's amazing how flexible Qubes is. If it becomes a little easier to use, then we might even be able to recommend non-Linux users to start using it. I also agree that it's a good idea to make software work that we ourselves may not necessarily think is good, despite of the actual value of the software outside opinion. And how Qubes can run pretty much anything and keep it secure. Like you said with Google Chrome, there are many people who still prefer Google Chrome over Firefox, even after knowing Firefox is open source and so on. So it's definitely a good idea to have Chrome working on Qubes. Preserving one of the principles of Linux, having it be people themselves decide what they want to use. One thing I'm still wondering about is how other people who start use Qubes recommended by someone else (different from us who posts on these mail threads), might not use Qubes to its full strength. For example one that I recommended Qubes to, despite after half a year, still only uses 2 maybe max 3 AppVM's. It feels like something Qubes still struggles with, how to make this isolation improve so that everyone can use Qubes to its full potential. The color scheme is a nice way to tell the difference, but it is kind of ugly too, it might not make everyone feel at home on Qubes. It's not very hard for us because we spend a lot of energy to get used to how Qubes works, so we can easily lock down closed source software for example. But how do we solve issues like that with people who are not spending time/energy on learning/remembering different isolations and prefer as few AppVM's as possible? As requested, here is my screenshot script https://github.com/Aekez/scripting-qubes/wiki/Streamlining-the-Screenshotting This is made to be very simplistic and minimalistic, it's basically a 3 liner and doesn't do anything beyond moving. I remember your script too, we talked about it in the past, but I think the discussion got buried below the many other new posts and we somehow lost track of it. I went searching for it, https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/qubes-users/screenshot$20xclip%7Csort:date/qubes-users/ruGz2c3qIJ8/J2XBW2xWAgAJ I really like your idea to copy it to the clipboard, as I previously said it's a genius idea you have there, I hope you will finish it :) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to qubes-users@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/eef59455-cf6b-4fa3-921b-92de1e3b1193%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
