Rex, Please accept my apologies for my inappropriate and utterly juvenile remarks. I got carried away by what I thought was criticism and was quick to respond in a scathing manner. I do accept and apologize for my inability in understanding what was essentially being asked of me.
Thanks to Ista and other members for clarifying what I failed to understand. I'm now aware that I must submit to appropriately answering questions from potential respondents of the survey. I must reiterate that "This survey is not sponsored or approved by any organization or company. The purpose of the survey is to satisfy my personal curiosity regarding R usage patterns. Results will be posted to a publicly available weblog; the data will not be used for any other purpose". (Thanks Ista for wording this out. I couldn't have done it better) Regards, Harsh Singhal http://in.linkedin.com/in/harshsinghal On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 2:11 AM, Ista Zahn <iz...@psych.rochester.edu> wrote: > On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 3:20 PM, Harsh <singhal...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi Ista, Spencer and Greg, > <snip> > > The information being collected is purely out of personal interest and I > > have mentioned this earlier. > > No, I don't think you did actually. This is the key thing we wanted to > know up-front, and it's a shame that it took the better part of the > day before we finally understand why you are conducting the survey. > > There is no commercial interest involved. > > > > Is it possible that I am interested in this sort of information to better > > understand R's usage patterns ? In doing so, the survey I am conducting > > would seem an appropriate way for my requirements. > > > > And how does belittling someone on a mailing list help ? > > > > If anyone wants the kind of information I am collecting, are there > > suggestions of better ways of finding it besides the method that I have > > adopted ? Sure I could scrape the data of LinkedIn pages, or find other > ways > > of doing it, but I found this suitable. > > > > > > > > On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 1:27 AM, Spencer Graves > > <spencer.gra...@structuremonitoring.com> wrote: > >> > >> Most surveys done in the US today are done during election season, > to > >> determine how to package candidates to attract votes. Officials elected > >> under such circumstances spend half their time in office servicing the > >> bribes that they accepted to pay for the surveys and the resulting > >> advertising (and the other half soliciting more bribes er contributions > for > >> their next campaign). The best reference on this I know is Thomas > Ferguson > >> (1995) Golden Rule (U. Chicago Pr.). It's by now somewhat old but is > still > >> cited by leading researchers. > >> > >> > >> People have a right to be cautious of surveys, because too rarely > >> today are surveys used for legitimate scientific purposes. Most often, > they > >> are used to defraud the public into doing things that are contrary to > their > >> best interests. > >> > >> > >> Spencer Graves > >> > >> > >> On 3/4/2011 11:37 AM, Ista Zahn wrote: > >>> > >>> Now hold on a second Harsh! I was fairly neutral up to this point, but > >>> this response is totally uncalled for. The problem is that despite > >>> repeated requests you never clarified the purpose of your research! > >>> That is all you were asked to do, but rather than responding to this > >>> inquirly in a straightforward and honest manner you kept dodging the > >>> question. The most charitable explanation is that you just don't > >>> understand what information you were being asked to provide, which is > >>> frustrating but understandable; your last response on the other hand > >>> is completly out of line. Research participants have a right to know > >>> the purpose for which their data is being collected, and as a > >>> researcher you have a responsibility to tell them. > >>> > >>> Rex, thank you for generating this discussion. When I first say > >>> Harsh's original email I was just getting ready to fill out the > >>> survey. When I saw your response I delayed. Boy am I glad I did! > >>> > >>> Best, > >>> Ista > >>> > >>> On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 2:20 PM, Harsh<singhal...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Rex, > >>>> You're just paranoid and I'm in no way answerable to you. Your > constant > >>>> name > >>>> calling presupposes your own naivete. > >>>> > >>>> The survey has a disclaimer and those who wish to respond can do so at > >>>> their > >>>> own discretion. > >>>> > >>>> Judging by the nature (and number) of respondents, there seem to be a > >>>> lot of > >>>> highly qualified people who have no qualms about sharing information > >>>> regarding their R usage patterns. > >>>> > >>>> You can believe what you want and can continue to spin your > imaginative > >>>> tales of "industrial espionage" while assuming a position of apparent > >>>> authority on survey design, Oscar gowns and data security AND my > >>>> apparent > >>>> ulterior and "outrageous" motives. > >>>> > >>>> You also seem to be an ignorant and misinformed person. Google forms, > >>>> using > >>>> which the survey was created DOES NOT log IP addresses of the > >>>> respondents. > >>>> > >>>> And exactly which question in the survey would contribute to > endangering > >>>> the > >>>> professional or personal safety and security of people responding to > the > >>>> survey. The information sought is freely available on LinkedIn. I > merely > >>>> want to get more descriptive information directly from R users. > >>>> > >>>> If you haven't looked at the Survey questions, then refrain from > making > >>>> misconstrued remarks. > >>>> > >>>> I apologize to the other users of this list for prolonging this > >>>> frivolous > >>>> debate here. This will be my last response on the list regarding this > >>>> topic. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> If anyone has an issue pertaining to the Survey, its outcome and my > >>>> motives, > >>>> they can get in touch with me independently and off the list. All > forms > >>>> of > >>>> constructive comments are also welcome. > >>>> > >>>> For those interested in sharing their R usage information please visit > >>>> goo.gl/jw1ig > >>>> > >>>> - H > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On 04-Mar-2011 10:34 PM,<rex.dw...@syngenta.com> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> You still don't say what organization you are associated with. Your > >>>>> domain > >>>> > >>>> name and e-mail address give no hint. How do we know that "Harsh > >>>> Singhal" is > >>>> even a real person? An e-mail address at a university (for example) > >>>> would go > >>>> a long way to establish that. Gmail doesn't cut it for me. > >>>>> > >>>>> The preponderance of evidence is that you're just a naïve person who > >>>>> would > >>>> > >>>> give your own information to anyone who asked. On the other hand, it's > >>>> possible that you are conducting industrial espionage by recording IP > >>>> addresses and associating "use cases" with companies. In my opinion, > the > >>>> onus is on you to show your bona fides, and you haven't done it. > >>>>> > >>>>> That's all I have to say... > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> From: Harsh [mailto:singhal...@gmail.com] > >>>>> Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 4:19 AM > >>>>> To: bill.venab...@csiro.au > >>>>> Cc: Dwyer Rex USRE; r-help@r-project.org > >>>>> Subject: Re: [R] R usage survey > >>>>> > >>>>> The R usage survey goo.gl/jw1ig<http://goo.gl/jw1ig> has been > updated > >>>>> with > >>>> > >>>> the following changes: > >>>>> > >>>>> Addition of - > >>>>> Disclaimer : > >>>>> This data will not be used for any commercial purposes > >>>>> Do not include any personally identifiable information > >>>>> Contact: Harsh Singhal (singhalblr AT gmail DOT com) for any queries > >>>>> > >>>>> Removal of - > >>>>> Name field > >>>>> > >>>>> My primary purpose in conducting this survey is - > >>>>> - Find multiple use cases for various R packages > >>>>> - Understand the nature of work when R is being used in Academia / > >>>> > >>>> Commercial settings > >>>>> > >>>>> - The kind of technologies that are being used in conjunction with R > >>>> > >>>> (popularity of usage of Python with R, and what purpose does using > >>>> Python > >>>> solve) > >>>>> > >>>>> The outcome of this analysis will be published on my blog (in the > >>>>> process > >>>> > >>>> of being created). > >>>>> > >>>>> There is absolutely no commercial purpose behind collecting this > >>>> > >>>> information and as earlier stated, this information will not be shared > >>>> with > >>>> personally identifiable information. > >>>>> > >>>>> Thank you once again Mr. Dwyer and Mr. Venables for raising very > import > >>>> > >>>> questions. > >>>>> > >>>>> I thank the R users who have already filled in the survey > goo.gl/jw1ig< > >>>> > >>>> http://goo.gl/jw1ig> and request more to do so. > >>>>> > >>>>> Regards, > >>>>> Harsh Singhal > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 7:41 AM,<bill.venab...@csiro.au> wrote: > >>>>> No. That's not answering the question. ALL surveys are for collecting > >>>> > >>>> information. > >>>>> > >>>>> The substantive issue is what purpose do you have in seeking this > >>>> > >>>> information in the first place and what are you going to do with it > when > >>>> you > >>>> get it? > >>>>> > >>>>> Do you have some commercial purpose in mind? If so, what is it? > >>>>> > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> From: r-help-boun...@r-project.org<mailto: > r-help-boun...@r-project.org> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> [mailto:r-help-boun...@r-project.org<mailto: > r-help-boun...@r-project.org>] > >>>> On Behalf Of Harsh > >>>>> > >>>>> Sent: Friday, 4 March 2011 1:13 AM > >>>>> To: rex.dw...@syngenta.com<mailto:rex.dw...@syngenta.com> > >>>>> Cc: r-help@r-project.org<mailto:r-help@r-project.org> > >>>>> Subject: Re: [R] R usage survey > >>>>> > >>>>> Hi Rex and useRs, > >>>>> > >>>>> The purpose of the survey has been mentioned on the survey link > >>>> > >>>> goo.gl/jw1ig<http://goo.gl/jw1ig> > >>>>> > >>>>> but I will also reproduce it here. > >>>>> - Geographical distribution of R users > >>>>> - Application areas where R is being used > >>>>> - Supporting technology being used along with R > >>>>> - Academic background distribution of R users > >>>>> > >>>>> The potential personally identifiable information such as name and > >>>> > >>>> employer > >>>>> > >>>>> name are optional fields. Actually all the fields in the survey are > >>>>> optional. > >>>>> > >>>>> Some of the analysis output(s) could be along the lines of :- > >>>>> - Usage statistics of various R packages > >>>>> - Distribution of R users across countries/cities > >>>>> - Mapping various applications to packages > >>>>> - Text Mining of the responses to create informative word clouds > >>>>> > >>>>> Personally, I am excited about the kind of data I will receive > through > >>>> > >>>> this > >>>>> > >>>>> survey and the various insights that could be derived. As already > >>>> > >>>> mentioned, > >>>>> > >>>>> the results will be shared with the community. > >>>>> > >>>>> Thank you Rex for raising an important point. It is indeed necessary > >>>>> for > >>>> > >>>> me > >>>>> > >>>>> to personally assure the user community that the results will be > shared > >>>>> in > >>>> > >>>> a > >>>>> > >>>>> manner that will not contain any personally identifiable information. > >>>>> > >>>>> Those who wish to gain access to the raw data will be provided with > all > >>>> > >>>> the > >>>>> > >>>>> fields but not the name and employer name fields. > >>>>> > >>>>> Just out of curiosity : It is possible to get name, employer name, > >>>> > >>>> location, > >>>>> > >>>>> usage information and academic background details when searching for > R > >>>> > >>>> users > >>>>> > >>>>> on LinkedIn and the many R related groups there. > >>>>> Does this also provide potential opportunities for misuse and > >>>>> "outrageous" > >>>>> analyses, since almost anyone can get onto LinkedIn and access user > >>>> > >>>> profiles > >>>>> > >>>>> ? > >>>>> > >>>>> Thank you for your interest and support. > >>>>> Regards, > >>>>> Harsh > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 8:02 PM,<rex.dw...@syngenta.com<mailto: > >>>> > >>>> rex.dw...@syngenta.com>> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Harsh, "Suitably analyzed" for whose purposes? One man's "suitable" > is > >>>>>> another's "outrageous". That's why people want to see the gowns at > the > >>>>>> Oscars. Under what auspices are you conducting this survey? What do > >>>>>> you > >>>>>> intend to do with it? You don't give any assurance that the results > >>>>>> you > >>>>>> post won't have personally identifiable information. I don't get the > >>>>>> impression that you know much about survey design. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>> From: > >>>>>> r-help-boun...@r-project.org<mailto:r-help-boun...@r-project.org> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> [mailto:r-help-boun...@r-project.org<mailto: > r-help-boun...@r-project.org>] > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Behalf Of Harsh > >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 5:53 AM > >>>>>> To: r-help@r-project.org<mailto:r-help@r-project.org> > >>>>>> Subject: [R] R usage survey > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Hi R users, > >>>>>> I request members of the R community to consider filling a short > >>>>>> survey > >>>>>> regarding the use of R. > >>>>>> The survey can be found at http://goo.gl/jw1ig > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Please accept my apologies for posting here for a non-technical > >>>>>> reason. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> The data collected will be suitably analyzed and I'll post a link to > >>>>>> the > >>>>>> results in the coming weeks. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Thank you all for your interest and for sharing your R usage > >>>>>> information. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Regards, > >>>>>> Harsh Singhal > >>>>>> > >>>>>> [[alternative HTML version deleted]] > >>>>>> > >>>>>> ______________________________________________ > >>>>>> R-help@r-project.org<mailto:R-help@r-project.org> mailing list > >>>>>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help > >>>>>> PLEASE do read the posting guide > >>>>>> http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html > >>>>>> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> message may contain confidential information. If you are not the > >>>> > >>>> designated > >>>>>> > >>>>>> recipient, please notify the sender immediately, and delete the > >>>>>> original > >>>> > >>>> and > >>>>>> > >>>>>> any copies. Any use of the message by you is prohibited. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> [[alternative HTML version deleted]] > >>>>> > >>>>> ______________________________________________ > >>>>> R-help@r-project.org<mailto:R-help@r-project.org> mailing list > >>>>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help > >>>>> PLEASE do read the posting guide > >>>> > >>>> http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html > >>>>> > >>>>> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> message may contain confidential information. If you are not the > >>>> > >>>> designated recipient, please notify the sender immediately, and delete > >>>> the > >>>> original and any copies. Any use of the message by you is prohibited. > >>>> > >>>> [[alternative HTML version deleted]] > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ______________________________________________ > >>>> R-help@r-project.org mailing list > >>>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help > >>>> PLEASE do read the posting guide > >>>> http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html > >>>> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. > >>>> > > > > > > > > -- > Ista Zahn > Graduate student > University of Rochester > Department of Clinical and Social Psychology > http://yourpsyche.org > [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
______________________________________________ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
