On Sat, 2009-08-29 at 03:50 -0700, JoelMatthews wrote: > > IMO, for a bike that's intended to be a modern club sport mount, DT > > shifters would be superfluous. > > As my last post on the topic, I will concede the club angle most > likely is what I am missing here. Bikes are my primary form of > transportation,
You may be sure, a bike like this is not primarily about transportation. > I ride them to work, around town, for fun and on > vacation. I use components that work for me. I imagine clubs with > all the group dynamics and peer pressure make d/t a hard sell. It's not group dynamics and peer pressure in a sociological sense. Most of the target audience has probably never used downtube shifters, and even those who have done would probably find them inappropriate for use in a pace line or peleton where everybody else is using brifters because of the different way you shift -- less frequently, more surging and falling behind, possibly even a little wobbling when you shift. I think most of the target audience believes downtube shifters are simply unsafe in a pace line [where everyone else has brifters]. > Too > bad, as d/t shifters are an elegant simple solution. I like the way they look, too, but then never really worked for me in the past. I have indexed downtube levers on my latest, a Kogswell P/R set up as a porteur, and they're good in that application. They, along with the inverse brake levers, let me use almost all of the handlebar, and that goes a long way towards mitigating the hand pain issues I have with city bikes and upright bars. But on a road bike? Never. For that, I like bar end shifters and too bad about the cables; function trumnps elegance. > No one could > ever figure out how to command the kind of prices for them that > Shimano, SRAM, and Campy get for ergos. And that is all she wrote. > > On Aug 28, 10:01 pm, "Bill M." <bmenn...@comcast.net> wrote: > > I think the reason for the lack of DT mounts on both the Roadeo and > > most W'fords may be that 'modern' DT's have short butted sections to > > save some more weight. That would put the shifter boss on the thinner > > belly of the tube, where the heat of brazing could weaken the tube a > > bit too much for comfort. IIRC, Grant touted the custom 753 tubes of > > the original Road Std. as having a long enough DT butt to make sure > > the shifter bosses were on the thick part of the tube. > > > > IMO, for a bike that's intended to be a modern club sport mount, DT > > shifters would be superfluous. It's all about brifters out there, and > > bar ends will still work for those who insist on friction > > compatibility. But that's just me - I have two bikes with Ergos, > > three with bar ends, one with Grip Shifts (recumbent), and none with > > DT levers. > > > > Bill > > > > On Aug 28, 7:33 pm, JoelMatthews <joelmatth...@mac.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > It doesn't seem to me that Grant wants this bike to be > > > > seen as some retro/throwback rig that folks are gonna want to equip > > > > with 40-year-old parts. Rather the goal seems to be: let's show that a > > > > modern lugged steel frame can hold its own against the techno-whiz > > > > frames. > > > > > But why not give the 40 year old parts a chance to shine as well? > > > > > Seriously though, I suspect this (and set up costs) to be the > > > culprit. GP's write up said he really had to sweat the weight. D/t > > > mounts are surprisingly heavy little buggers. > > > > > On Aug 28, 9:07 pm, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery <thill....@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > I find it hard to believe that not including the dt mounts is a simple > > > > cost saving measure, as this isn't intended to be a budget frame. I > > > > suspect that the primary reason is the dt bosses add weight, and that > > > > there isn't enough demand for dt shifters to justify the extra couple > > > > ounces or whatever that would make it harder to acheive the sub-4lb > > > > weight target. If this is indeed a "club racer", then most people who > > > > get one will probably want to use some type of integrated shifting/ > > > > braking levers. It doesn't seem to me that Grant wants this bike to be > > > > seen as some retro/throwback rig that folks are gonna want to equip > > > > with 40-year-old parts. Rather the goal seems to be: let's show that a > > > > modern lugged steel frame can hold its own against the techno-whiz > > > > frames. > > > > > > On Aug 28, 8:42 pm, JoelMatthews <joelmatth...@mac.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > Waterford makes the Boulder Bicycles frames and the three I've seen > > > > > > all had d/t shifter mounts. So they do know how to do it! > > > > > > > Well, yeah. And their own Hetchins tribute has dt mounts. > > > > > > > I am guessing no option on the Roadeo and it would appear on > > > > > Waterford's own stock models (unless I am missing something on their > > > > > web site) has something to do with Steve's point about setting up the > > > > > jigs and all. > > > > > > > Possibly d/t mounts take some additional set up - which means time - > > > > > which means money. > > > > > > > On Aug 28, 5:53 pm, Ryan Watson <rswat...@nyx.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > Waterford makes the Boulder Bicycles frames and the three I've seen > > > > > > > > > > > > all had d/t shifter mounts. So they do know how to do it! > > > > > > > > Ryan > > > > > > > > On Aug 28, 2009, at 13:18, JoelMatthews <joelmatth...@mac.com> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > >> Perhaps this lack of flexibility is reflective of what > > > > > > >> Waterford is willing to accept. > > > > > > > > > Waterford could be driving this. From their site it appears the > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > frame offered with DT braze ons is the (actually rather > > > > > > > attractive) > > > > > > > Hetchins Swallow Tribute touring bike. None of the Waterford road > > > > > > > racing bikes have DT braze ons. GP's write up said he put more > > > > > > > of the > > > > > > > design specs in Waterford's hands because he was trying to meet a > > > > > > > specific weight total. Maybe Waterford believes accommodating DT > > > > > > > braze ons adds too much weight. > > > > > > > > >> Finally, having only white available as a standard color (with an > > > > > > >> upcharge of $300.00 for another color), strikes me as rather like > > > > > > >> Henry Ford's options for the model T (any color available, as > > > > > > >> long as > > > > > > >> it was black). > > > > > > > > > This has always been Riv's policy on paint though. In this > > > > > > > instance, > > > > > > > I do not mind, as the stock Roadeo scheme is close to the Trek > > > > > > > 959, > > > > > > > the bike I dreamed about owning during my High School days. > > > > > > > > > On Aug 28, 2:07 pm, Jim Cloud <cloud...@aol.com> wrote: > > > > > > >> I'm not in the market for another bike, so any comments are > > > > > > >> simply > > > > > > >> reflective of my own opinion. It seems strange to me that > > > > > > >> Grant, who > > > > > > >> was always an exponent of not using shifting components that > > > > > > >> required > > > > > > >> "system compatibility" has agreed to spec the Roadeo so that its > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> braze- > > > > > > >> on's are only really useful with a shift integrated (e.g. > > > > > > >> Shimano) > > > > > > >> system. > > > > > > > > >> I also find it perplexing that Rivendell, apparently, will not > > > > > > >> accommodate a customer request to have downtube shifter bosses > > > > > > >> on the > > > > > > >> frame. This is not a cheap bicycle, $2,000 is a good chunk of > > > > > > >> change. Perhaps this lack of flexibility is reflective of what > > > > > > >> Waterford is willing to accept. > > > > > > > > >> Finally, having only white available as a standard color (with an > > > > > > >> upcharge of $300.00 for another color), strikes me as rather like > > > > > > >> Henry Ford's options for the model T (any color available, as > > > > > > >> long as > > > > > > >> it was black). > > > > > > > > >> Jim > > > > > > > > >> On Aug 28, 11:06 am, JoelMatthews <joelmatth...@mac.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > >>>> Aren't band attached down tube mounts available? > > > > > > > > >>> Indeed there are. > > > > > > > > >>> However, I have two lovely NOS sets of Simplex braze on dt > > > > > > >>> levers > > > > > > >>> with > > > > > > >>> the sunburst (the older, harder to get in good NOS condition > > > > > > >>> Simplex > > > > > > >>> levers), an NOS Simplex white plastic braze on set and two > > > > > > >>> beautiful > > > > > > >>> NOS Campy Record braze on lever sets. > > > > > > > > >>> I readily admit we are going into persnickity parts collector > > > > > > >>> territory here, but I really would like to have a bike where I > > > > > > >>> could > > > > > > >>> rotate use of some of those lovely old parts > > > > > > > > >>> Maybe if I had some swell clamp on sets I would feel > > > > > > >>> differently. > > > > > > >>> Real nice NOS clamp on shifters are far and few between, > > > > > > >>> however. I > > > > > > >>> have been actively collecting for six years now and can only > > > > > > >>> remember > > > > > > >>> one or two being offered for sale. > > > > > > > > >>> Besides, it would look kind of odd to have such a lovely frame > > > > > > >>> with > > > > > > >>> unused cable routers above a clamp on shifter. > > > > > > >>> On Aug 28, 12:33 pm, Bruce <fullylug...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > >>>> Aren't band attached down tube mounts available? IIRC, many > > > > > > >>>> early > > > > > > >>>> steel frames had cable guides and bottle holders attached by > > > > > > >>>> wrap > > > > > > >>>> around bands, not braze ons, so this would not be that unusual. > > > > > > > > >>>>> On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 9:48 AM, > > > > > > >>>>> JoelMatthews<joelmatth...@mac.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > >>>>>> Well, it is not exactly like the bikes raced by Jacques > > > > > > >>>>>> Anquetil and > > > > > > >>>>>> Eddy Merckx as it does not have down tube shifter braze > > > > > > >>>>>> ons.- > > > > > > >>>>>> Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > >>>> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > >> - Show quoted text - > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 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