Thanks, Bill! These messages are coming in a little slow, but that is exactly my question. My current bike has a headtube angle (73 degrees) and a fork offset of 65mm with a resulting trial of 43mm. This is on the higher side of low trail but allows for the kind of handling I like and no toe overlap with fenders and tires (700c) that measure over 2.3 inches. I think this is one of the advantages of going low trail with this headtube angle and tire size in that it allows for a pretty nimble feeling in terms of handling with big and tall tires and no toe overlap. The Susie in the L size has a headtube angle of 69 degrees, slightly less fork offset at 63mm, and a resulting trail of 79mm. This leads to two things, a longer front-center, and very high trail. I am assuming because of the long front-center there is little toe overlap on the Susie for most people but I am wondering what the handling is like with such a wide tire and such high trail? I understand the advantage of high trail in really rock conditions and rooted single track, but I do not find the lowish trail on my current setup to pose any real issues in these conditions, especially when I put tires bigger than the 2.3s currently on it (which slightly increases trail but not by much).
I understand these are also personal preferences but I am wondering what the impact of such high trail and as proxy a really long front end on the subjective experiences of handling people are having with this bike? I am sure that all of this could be mitigated to some extent with stem and handlebar choice, but I am curious as I find this design really interesting from a geometry point of view and would like to build a bike with similar geometry to try it out. I suppose ultimate stability is the aim of the Susie, but are people finding it sluggish to turn or to go uphill (wheel flop), or is the proposed smoothness of such a long wheelbase sort of canceling this out? Thanks again for the answers!! On Thu, Mar 18, 2021 at 10:03 AM Bill Lindsay <tapebu...@gmail.com> wrote: > The Original Poster asked questions bout the design of the Susie/Wolbis, > and stated their favorite bike has similarly long chainstays but a front > center that is fully 4 inches (ten centimeters) shorter. The Original > Poster asked for a comparison. > > Maybe it would be useful to the discussion for you to show us that > favorite bike of yours, and let's compare it to your size of Susie. Post > some pictures! > > My first instinct is that in my size of Susie, if the front center was 4 > inches shorter I'd have TCO which I wouldn't want on a hillibike, and the > front end would be super heavy. The positive of a heavy front end may be > that the front tire hooks up better. The bad part of a heavy front end is > that I'd have a harder time getting the front end to roll up and over > things. > > Bill Lindsay > El Cerrito, CA > > On Tuesday, March 16, 2021 at 11:39:33 AM UTC-7 reca...@gmail.com wrote: > >> Hello All, >> >> Since I've been *very* slowly getting into DIY framebuilding over the >> past few years, and by way of it, trying to better understand why some >> geometries work for me and my kind of riding over others, I have come to >> appreciate the method of builders like Waltworks in terms of using >> front-center as a guide for putting together a frame geometry with relation >> to getting the rider's weight distribution the way they want it (i.e. >> getting the bike to ride and fit the way one wants). >> >> A corollary to this is that a builder might then use, like Waltworks the >> following method (paraphrased): >> >> >> 1. pick the trail you want >> 2. pick where you want your wheels to be >> 3. pick BB height >> 4. make sure the person can then fit the bike in the desired >> position(s) through HT length, stem, bars, etc. >> >> So my long-winded question is, with Grant's emphasis on getting more >> upright and weight to the back while making the chainstays longer to >> accommodate this, what might be the corresponding logic of making the >> front-center length of the Susie/Wolbis almost so long? Is it a matter of >> making the total wheelbase longer or a function of the slacker HT and >> corresponding fork offset/trail), a combo? Perhaps I am wondering most >> importantly is, what are the ride characteristics of such a choice? Does it >> still handle in the way that most other high-trail bikes characteristically >> do? I ask because I am really interested in this design, understand the >> benefits of longer chainstays especially for my kind of more upright >> position and preferred weight distribution, but have still found that my >> favorite kind of bike that I have ridden so far has a longish rear-center, >> lowish trail, and a front-center about 10cm shorter than that of the >> Susie. I am by no means a low trail evangelist, so I guess what I am >> looking for are some impressions in terms of front-end handling of the >> bike? >> >> Thank you all and please excuse (direct me to the discussions) if this >> has been covered here before. >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the > Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/m25GKWFFkYQ/unsubscribe > . > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/dcddfdb2-9cae-48cb-a364-eed63aa94efen%40googlegroups.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/dcddfdb2-9cae-48cb-a364-eed63aa94efen%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CAMyWOFF%2BPHS%3DOueD69MT%3D3_ATZ1M%3DjOszQXizHJBB4UHZqDj0A%40mail.gmail.com.
